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Eric L.
Location: Netherland Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
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 Posted: Sat 14 Jan, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: How to make a Baskethilt |
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Hello, i`m interested to learn, step by step, about how the Baskethilt of a Baskethilt sword are made.
And what tools you need to bend the materials.
I have a link to Vince Evans picture trail that gives an idea of it.
Don`t know if there is more on this subject on the web.
Thanks for any help.
Eric
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E.B. Erickson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jan, 2006 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Hello Eric,
Vince's site is the only photo tutorial I'm aware of, and you really don't need much else in the way of how to put things together. To bend hilt elements, all you need for most items is a ball peen hammer, and a vice ( a fairly hefty one) upon which to whack things into shape. The only hilt elements that you'll absolutely need to heat to red hot for bending would be the forward guards: those loop-like structures at the front of the basket.
If you want to capture the feel of the originals, you'll need to make all the pieces separately, and shape and position them carefully before welding them together.
Unless you're trying to replicate a military basket of the later 1700s, don't just cut the hilt out of sheet and attempt to bend things to the right shape; it just won't look right!
Hope this helps a bit! --ElJay
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Eric L.
Location: Netherland Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sun 15 Jan, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for your reply  .
May i ask what type of welding equipment do u use?
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E.B. Erickson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: |
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I use an arc (stick) welder, but I've used MIG welders, too. Vince Evans uses a gas welder; I use gas for antique repair. Any type of welder will work for hilt making.
--ElJay
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Eric L.
Location: Netherland Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Thanks again .
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Cole Sibley
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: |
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A good question, and some good answers too. I've been contemplating giving it a go myself, but haven't quite got my head wrapped around the complexities of that hilt yet. How hard/soft would a historic basket be? Are they hardened at all, or do the 'welds' provide enough stiffness? How much might a basket (hilt components) weigh? Interesting discussion, and thanks for the kind help.
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Cole Sibley wrote: | | A good question, and some good answers too. I've been contemplating giving it a go myself, but haven't quite got my head wrapped around the complexities of that hilt yet. How hard/soft would a historic basket be? Are they hardened at all, or do the 'welds' provide enough stiffness? How much might a basket (hilt components) weigh? Interesting discussion, and thanks for the kind help. |
Here is a copy & paste of an old post I did on baskethilt ramblings !
Also if you checkout my PictureTrail albums, linked below, you'll find many a stat breakdown on some of my other custom pieces, etc!
Good luck, Mac
The following info is from an old post I did called "Baskethilt Ramblings" .....
It has a few comments from maker Vince Evans that are very interesting !
It also includes measurements on a few of my custom baskets......
There was alot of variation in the size of the baskets , some being so tight that an average hand would have to contort itself to fit, and others being big 'ol clunkers !
I believe a good average to be anywhere from 3 3/4 " inches wide X 4 1/2" inches long !
* The pic links were no longer working, so I have taken them out.
Baskethilt Ramblings !
I've had some cool conversations , off-line, in regards to the stats on (basket) hilts …… Rather than have the info just lost to my Trash bin ( or my tired old brain) I'm going to randomly, in my disorganized way, post some of it here……. Many thanks to Vince Evans for putting up with my constant questions etc!
One question I asked Vince was this:
Do most of the historical baskethilts you
have handled have an "off-set" , or a bias to one side? The S-hilt I
have by Donnie Shearer has a 3/8"th off set , but most of my other
custom baskets dont! What sort of off-set do you usually use? And do you
always use one? ( I know you mention you have one on the basket that is
featured on your construction page!)
"Hi Mac,
The Jacobite era baskets tended to have the off-set grip. The measurement
across the basket was generally about 4 1/2 inches. I usually allow 1 1/2
inches for the thumb clearance and just under 2 inches for knuckle
clearance. These measurements are based on a sword I had in my shop.
Donnie Shearer has a good collection of original swords so I'm sure his
baskets are made to original specs. The Walter Allan swords were not
always off-set. I will do more investigating when I go back (Scotland) in March."
I sent Vince stats on several of my custom basket-hilts ( which I will post below ) but he was kind enough to send me the following info., about some original pieces he had stats on…..
"Hi Mac,
Thank you for all the stats. I stopped in at a customer's place to take some more
measurements off of his antique basket hilts. He has a Walter Allen with a
removable hilt. Here's the stats:
Basket: 14 oz
Pommel: 8-1/4 oz
Blade: 1 lb. 2-1/2 oz
·
Other basket hilt weights from his collection (my names for them):
Stirling Hilt Backsword: 2-1/2 lb., POB: 2" from basket
"Squashed": 2 lb 1-1/4 oz., POB: 3" from basket
"Rusty": 2 lb 7-1/4 oz
S-Hilt: 1 lb 15-1/2 oz, POB: 1-3/4" from basket
Regarding dirks, there were a few that had the broader barrel grip like
yours but the majority had a narrower gripping area. Just one of those
things you learn when you get to view them in person. You can't judge a
dirk by its photo. Average grip length about 4 to 4-1/4 inches. Blades
made from broken swords were fairly thin.
The sgian achlais pictured in John Wallace's book is in the Museum of
Scotland in Edinburgh. The blade is actually about 8 inches long. The
knife is much larger than it appears in photographs.
I've got pages and pages of notes that I took and drawings I made but I
look at them now and realize there's so much more that I didn't write down.
It's very deceiving looking at pictures of swords and dirks in books. It
can be quite shocking to see how petite they really were. Did you know
that the thickness of the blades on basket hilts for the last foot or so is
close to 1/16"? Bar thickness on baskets varied but averaged 3/16" to 1/4"
and tapered toward the pommel. Eljay's basket is an excellent example, not
to mention, the nicest modern-made basket I've ever seen.
************************************************
Let me clarify some of the
measurements regarding baskets. The bars of the baskets are 3/16" to 1/4"
at the main guard where the tang passes through and taper from there. The
decorative panels are quite thin but the connecting bars can be thick.
Every basket is different and this applies more to Stirling styles than
Glasgow style hilts. Blades averaged 3/16" to 1/4" at the hilt.
-- Vince"
Here are some stats on some of my custom made baskets….. Slàinte , Mac
1.) Eljay Erickson basket ( reproduction of a Walter Allan of Sterling )
Basket weight: 1.20 lbs. , Pommel: 0.34, Complete hilt: 1.66 lbs.(no blade)
Basket width: 3 7/8" , length: 4 1/8" , (no bias to either side, measures 1 5/8" on both sides of handle)
Thickness:
Main knuckle bow .23 , Guards: .22 to .29 , design scrolls: .10 to .12
2.) S-Hilt by Donnie Shearer (aka The MadPiper)
Basket weight: 1.10 lbs. , Pommel: 0.46 lbs. , Complete hilt: 1.66lbs. (no blade)
Basket width: 3 3/4" , Length: 4 1/2" , 3/8" bias to right side of handle ( 1 3/4" on right side of handle, and 1 3/8" on left )
Thickness:
Main knuckle guard: .19 to .22 , Guards: .13 average , pierced panels: .10
3.) Al Massey custom baskethilt :
Weight: 3.50 lbs (complete sword w/blade)
Basket Width: 4" inches ,at narrowest area, widening to 4 1/4" inches
Basket Length: 4 1/2"
No bias to either side, 1 3/4" on each side of handle
Thickness:
Main knuckle bow: .15 , Guards: .09 to .13 , Panels: .11
4.) Randal Graham custom Baskethilt
Weight: 3.44 lbs. (complete w/blade)
Basket Width: 4 1/8" widening to 4 5/8" inches , Length: 4 5/8"
No bias, 1 3/4" on either side of handle
Thickness:
Main knuckle bow: .11 to .14
Guards: .10 - .12
panels: .08
5.) 1828 Pattern Highland Officers Broadsword (antique reproduction)
Weight: 2.80 lbs. ( complete with blade)
Basket width: 4 3/4" narrowing to 4 1/2" inches , no bias.
Basket Length: 5 1/8"
Thickness:
Main knuckle guard: .11 , guards: .08 , Panels: .14
Last edited by Thomas McDonald on Mon 16 Jan, 2006 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Brass & Steel baskethilt by Vince Evans
Overall length - 39"(including button), Blade length - 33 1/4", Blade width - 1 1/4"(at hilt),Blade Thickness - 3/16" (at hilt), Fuller - 5/16" x 31 1/2", False edge - transition starts 13" back from tip steadily getting sharper to tip, Blade steel - 5160, Hilt steel - mild steel w/brass panels & wristguard, Weight - 2 lbs. 15 3/4 oz., POB - 2 5/16" (out from hilt), Basket width - 3 1/2", Basket length - 4 1/4", Basket height - 4 1/2", Grip length - 3 3/4"(including ferrules), Grip material - rayskin over wood w/ braided silver wire, Pommel diameter - 1 3/4" , Scabbard - leather over wood w/steel & brass fittings (weighs 10 1/2 oz.)
Component weights: Hilt - 1 lbs. 15 oz., Blade - 1 lbs. 3/4 oz.(Pommel - 8 1/2 oz., Basket - 1 lbs. 4 oz., Capstan nut - 1/4 oz., Grip - 1 3/4 oz.). Construction assembly - Takedown hilt (theaded tang & capstan).
Last edited by Thomas McDonald on Mon 16 Jan, 2006 12:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Silver inlayed Stirling baskethilt by E.B. Erickson
Weight - 3 lbs. 2 oz., Overall length - 39 3/4", Blade length - 33 7/8", BW - 1 5/8", Blade thickness - a hair over 1/8 thick on the spine., POB - 4 3/8" out from hilt, Fuller length - 24 1/8", Fuller width - 3/4", tapering steadily. False edge - 8", blended smoothly.
Basket - 1 lb. 1 1/2 oz.
Pommel - 7 oz.( about 1 3/4 dia.)
Grip - 3 7/8" (weighs - 1 3/4 oz.)
Capstan - 1/4 oz.
Scabbard weight - 10 3/4 oz.
The blade is a modified Del Tin (possibly DT 2132) that was reworked by Eljay. The bare blade weighed 1 lb. 7 1/2 oz.
 Attachment: 62.66 KB
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: Vince Evans and Eljay Baskethilts |
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Mac - Those two "examples" are gorgeous! Now THAT is how to make a baskethilt!
"...dismount thy tuck, be yare in thy preparation, for thy assailant is quick, skilful, and deadly."
- Sir Toby Belch
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Cole Sibley
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Wonderful stuff Thomas, thank you so much. I am quite stunned by the overall weights, the blades make up a surprisingly small portion of the weight! They must make for wonderful cutting machines, I am convinced that I must have one, somehow.
Another question, if I may take up some more time; what is the purpose (or signficance) of the red felt liners seen in some baskets?
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jan, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Cole Sibley wrote: | | Another question, if I may take up some more time; what is the purpose (or signficance) of the red felt liners seen in some baskets? |
Hi Cole
Attached is a bit of info from John Wallace's book 'Scottish Swords & Dirks' (1970) that discusses basket liners !
Mac
Attachment: 79.9 KB
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Eric L.
Location: Netherland Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Tue 17 Jan, 2006 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Excellent, thanks Thomas.
Those swords look amazing.
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