Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > A question of balance: falcata and kopis Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
John Cooksey




Location: NW Ark
Joined: 15 Nov 2003

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Fri 09 Dec, 2005 8:42 am    Post subject: A question of balance: falcata and kopis         Reply with quote

I am getting ready to have one of these babies put together, and I am curious as to how far out the center-of-gravity "ought" to be.
Would there be a significant difference between the handling of an Eastern Med. Kopis and a Western Med. falcata?
Seems like Kopis blades are often skinnier, but Falcata blades have more fullering.

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
View user's profile Send private message
B. Stark
Industry Professional




Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Reading list: 11 books

Posts: 395

PostPosted: Fri 09 Dec, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I had a few conversations about these swords with Peter Johnsson. Firstly, from what PJ has discovered, these swords tend to be lighter than most would initially believe. Also, they apparently have very drastic and or complex distal taper. Some incorporate a "T" shaped crossection. Being that they are so short also contributes to a lessening of true blade presence. At least in the Iberian versions. They seem more robust then many of the Greek versions. Which tend to be longer and slimmer in profile in some cases.

I think that it is a misconception that these swords were heavy cleavers. Though they were designed to give a devastating blow. I believe they were quite quick in the hand.

"Wyrd bi∂ ful arĉd"
View user's profile Send private message
Nathan Robinson
myArmoury Admin


myArmoury Admin

PostPosted: Fri 09 Dec, 2005 3:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for posting that! I started to post a reply with a recap of a similar conversation I listened in on with Peter as well, but frankly, I didn't remember the details enough to be confident enough to post about them. Worried
.:. Visit my Collection Gallery :: View my Reading List :: View my Wish List :: See Pages I Like :: Find me on Facebook .:.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Cooksey




Location: NW Ark
Joined: 15 Nov 2003

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec, 2005 9:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From what I have read, it does seem like falcata, at least, were pretty quick little beasts.
I am having a generic "falcata/kopis/machaira" made, and I can't decide whether to have the POB/COG somewhere in the vicinity of 2 inches, or somewhere in the vicinity of 4 inches, out from the hilt.
I tend to like weapons with a bit more blade presence, both for cutting and for thrusting.
It's going to be a bit heavier than some historic falcata, but it's going to be a pretty good-sized weapon, too.

Thanks, y'all.

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
View user's profile Send private message
Shane Allee
Industry Professional



Location: South Bend, IN
Joined: 29 Aug 2003

Posts: 506

PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec, 2005 10:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well if it isn't the Scythian... I knew your name looked familiar John, but couldn't place it. Finally made the connection with the ginko leaf avatar and your sword for sale. Good to have you around here and have you posting again.

About the best source we have found is El armamento ibérico by Sanz, shouldn't be a problem for you to ILL through your university. You are still at the university down there right? Anyway, if you have problems let me know and I'll get you what I have. He does have a good number of illustrations for the kopis, machaira, and the falcata with cross sections included. It will also get you some thicknesses for a few different falcata blades. Few other bits in there as well if you take the time and work with it. Really would be worth your time, should be more than a few things in there that will catch your eye.

I would hold off on going too generic, after you get Sanz you will really start seeing some of the specific characteristics of each type. With the machaira and kopis you can pretty much figure the balance point will be out there a bit, I wouldn't even venture a guess on where it will fall on until I get a falcata finished though. There is just that much going on that it will be interesting seeing how things shift around as it comes together.

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Shane
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
John Cooksey




Location: NW Ark
Joined: 15 Nov 2003

Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun 11 Dec, 2005 10:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Shane Allee wrote:
Well if it isn't the Scythian... I knew your name looked familiar John, but couldn't place it. Finally made the connection with the ginko leaf avatar and your sword for sale. Good to have you around here and have you posting again.

About the best source we have found is El armamento ibérico by Sanz, shouldn't be a problem for you to ILL through your university. You are still at the university down there right? Anyway, if you have problems let me know and I'll get you what I have. He does have a good number of illustrations for the kopis, machaira, and the falcata with cross sections included. It will also get you some thicknesses for a few different falcata blades. Few other bits in there as well if you take the time and work with it. Really would be worth your time, should be more than a few things in there that will catch your eye.

I would hold off on going too generic, after you get Sanz you will really start seeing some of the specific characteristics of each type. With the machaira and kopis you can pretty much figure the balance point will be out there a bit, I wouldn't even venture a guess on where it will fall on until I get a falcata finished though. There is just that much going on that it will be interesting seeing how things shift around as it comes together.

Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Shane


Indeed, it is I. :-)

That book sounds like a fabulous resource. I am going to try and get it through ILL soon. My Spanish is a little rusty, but should allow me to read it passingly well.

Heh. I already commissioned a custom piece.
It is going to be more of a try piece, though, to see what works for me. A little extra weight is not much problem, given my arm, as long as the weapon is quick enough, overall.
It will be probably be weighted and balanced more to the "large kopis" end of the spectrum, as I find the historical context of the earlier Greek weapons more fascinating (given my obvious historical bent [grin]) than the later Iberian ones.
Also getting a small iron-age type smithy set up, so don't be too surprised if y'all start seeing some "primitive" leafies and chiruwa-style khuks from me in the next couple of years.
That's mostly going to be a research endeavor for me, into archaeological process and reconstruction. And the fact that I just like to play with tools and fire . . . . . . . :-)

The weapon is actually being forged out now, so I should have it available in a few weeks.

I didn't surrender, but they took my horse and made him surrender.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > A question of balance: falcata and kopis
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum