[Jean Thibodeau]

This site seems to have some rather nice looking Gambison and other stuff if you go back upstream to their home page.

Unfortunatly they seem to be only in French on the site.

I haven't done any business with them so I have no opinion about customer service.
http://pages.videotron.com/gambison/

I found the above linked to this site in Quebec that also looks like a good Living History / Ren. Fair / Theatrical group, again only in French but the pictures of armour are worth a look.
http://www.compagnonsdarmes.com/Bienvenue.htm

[Caleb Hallgren]

The armor on the second site seems pretty nice actually, although they don't seem to use mail in their exposed areas, which is somehat contrary to the period.

My main beef though with the second site is their shields.

Look at the gallery and at the melees. Notice that all their shields are solid metal. From the general mid-1400's period that they are representing, it'll be at least another century before solid metal shields make an appearance.

[Jean Thibodeau]

Calebb;

The lack of maille can be for reasons of comfort or cost and they may have a more "Renaissance Fair " casual attitude to authenticity than a strict living history group ?

In any case a friend sent me the link and I don't have any personal experience with this group, but the pictures look nice and they do seem to be enjoying themselves.

The fighting style may also be more " theatrical " than real as I noticed one shot where the shield is uncovering the body when lunging with the sword in a very " Hollywood " movie style !? ( Seems like bad technique even if based only on very casual reading. )

Solid metal shields could be ignorance of the error you point out or just to have shields they won't have to replace or repair after every show..

[Caleb Hallgren]

They do indeed seem to be having fun.

Oh well.

The plate armor does seem to be fairly nice as well.

[W. R. Reynolds]

On the first site I can't speak to the gambesons (they look OK) as my interest is late Burgundian (Chucky the Bold) but the man in the jaque has a good impression.

As to the second site, I will have to classify that group as Ren. Fair / Theatrical. At the risk of being branded an authenticity Nazi, there are just too many little details wrong to give them a LH thumbs up. At a glance, the men in the street fight are wearing modern shoes with heels, the shape of some of the pieces of armour in most of the pics is wrong (greaves, couters, poleyns, vambrace, etc), a sword sheath that is riveted together, only a couple of decent pair of hosen to be seen, modern buckles and more.

Since I cant read French, I don't know what their focus is. Ren / Theatre is fun in it's own right and they do seem to be having it , and for that their impression is good. If they are trying to do 15th century Burgundian LH (I'm guessing because of the livery jackets) then they have a ways to go. While there are some individual pieces that are OK, I don't think any of them have a complete LH kit.

[Jean Thibodeau]

W.R. ;

I agree with you: Very theatrical focus as they offer their services for weddings, parties, movie or T.V. work etc ......

I did notice the shoes ........ But there is room for authenticity " Nazis " and lighter fantasy stuff as long as one doesn't get the two confused: Some care, some don't care and others don't know any better.

Still what is an obvious mistake to some can pass unoticed to someone not a serious student of a specific historical period.

I appreciate the input.

[Patrick Kelly]

One thing that should be remembered is that it's very easy to sit at your keyboard and criticize another's efforts. For all of the apparent inaccuracies (and there are quite a few with this group from what I see) they are still making and effort and contributing where others are not. I'm not saying anyone here is overtly guilty of this. I'm just adding a bit of perspective.

[Jean Thibodeau]

I think it's useful to discus " perceived " inaccuracies of historical " correctness " just for the sake of learning what is accurate or NOT and for those who need the information making their own choices about how far they want to push the accuracy thing.

Also let's not forget that our knowledge of the past is always a best guess and new research might contradict long accepted ideas.

In any case MY intent was not to be judgemental and I just thought it would be interesting to show some of the stuff happening in Québec. ( Even being here I am not clued in on the local stuff, but I am noticing that groups at every level of academic rigour, a great deal to none, are very popular locally:There is even a " Medieval themed restaurant within walking distance of my house that I haven't checked out )

In any case I agree with Patrick that when commenting on accuracy we should do it in a respectful manner. )

Note:
( I think all the preceding comments posted were respectful but I think Patrick anticipated the possibility of things going off the rails on this topic or on other topics. )

[W. R. Reynolds]

No disrespect intended, just a "casual observation". There are all sorts of levels of enjoyment in our game, mine may be a little more intense that most. My comments were for the benefit of those who may not have known. We are all here to learn. Thanks for the supportive comments Jean.

LH is a challenge and we all start somewhere. I shudder when I remember my starting kit, the more research I did the more I found that I was wrong and strove to improve, plus I had help from others who knew WAY more than I did and showed me where my mistakes were and proved it with sound research. Even now when I think that I'm pretty much at the top of MY game I still find things that need tweaking or one of my friends in the game will point something out.. Attention to the small details is what counts. Especially if you are going to tell the public that this is the way it really was. Then it becomes your duty to be as accurate as possible.

As for information, there is a lot more out there today in the way of new research than when I started doing this, and a lot of it can be chalked up to the increased interest in LH and "experimental archeology" of which many members of this forum participate in. Who would have thought of cutting parties ten or twenty years ago to see how REAL swords actually work and have manufacturers that actively support them? BTW, youse guys is way ahead of me in this respect which is one of the things that attracted me to this forum. How about WMA, huge growth in the last few years.

Nuff said for now.

Patrick, respect your position as moderator, tough spot to be in. If I get out of line just slap me up the side of the head.

[Patrick Kelly]

No worries here guys. Believe me, if you're in trouble you'll know it.

As a moderator I try very hard to exercise a policy of active monitoring. What I mean by that is I prefer to watch threads develop and interject a *suggestion* hear and there so that things stay on the proper track. On far too many forums you'll see lengthy flame wars go on for quite awhile until action is finally taken by the administration. Unfortunately, by that time threads will usually be locked, and/or people may be banned, etc. This really doesn't promote a healthy and comfortable environment. I also prefer to handle a lot of minor things publicly here on the boards instead of via PM. That way everyone knows that someone is in control, and everyone also sees what is and isn't acceptable. No big deal in this thread and I'm just relating my philosophy.

As for the reinactment stuff: my wife and I have decided to get back into doing a bit of this when time and circumstance allow. We've been working on some new clothing, and have been dragging our old stuff out for examination, most of which hasn't seen the light of day in over twelve years. Needless to say, I've looked at a lot of the old stuff and thought "I can't believe we wore that". The fabrics are completely wrong, as is the general cut and color in many cases. Most of it is just being canabalized for fittings. We've learned quite a bit over the proceeding years and the internet has been a real boon, both in knowledge and finding materials. When I look at photos like these it reminds me that there were times in my life when I dressed in much worse garb and called it accurate!