[Bill Grandy]

As you've probably guessed, the discussion of the MRL Sword of St. Michael inspired this thread. MRL's description says,

[Nathan Robinson]

Off the top of my head, I don't remember a single sword considered to be a falcion (or otherwise similar) having two edges. But I have not looked and that's just from memory.


Regarding the painting of St. Michael that inspired the replica. I'm including here what Boccia/Coelho say it in Armi Bianche Italiane. I unfortunately don't see that it mentions double-edged (or single-edged, for matter) in this description.

This is in Italian. I don't speak Italian so I'm sorry for mucking this up:

[Nathan Robinson]

I personally would not interpret the painting's sword to be double-edged.

I'll include the painting for you all to decide for yourselves:



And a close-up of the weapon in question:

[Aaron Schnatterly]

I'm in agreement - this doesn't look to me to be double-edged. In the enlarged B&W pic, the details of the blade are pretty clear (yeah, I know it's a painting, so details are added, not captured like a photo...). The edge looks to be very well defined. The back seems to possibly be slightly hollowed, to provide a stiff mid-rib, but the lack of an indicator for a back edge leads me to feel it's a typical thick back.

I also don't know of any historical example that has 2 edges, but these specific pieces don't hold a ton of interest to me, so I don't pay a ton of attention to them.

[Sean Flynt]

I'm pretty much convinced that it's SE, with a double hollow grind. Does anybody have enough clout with MRL to holler "STOP THE PRESSES"? Would MRL care?

[Sean Flynt]

the phrase "ombo sgusciato" seems to be the key. Sgusciato seems to translate as "shell," so the blade is of ............... shell section. Any Italian-speakers out there?

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

The deep fuller pattern close to the back edge (possibly lingering remnants from single edged viking swords and hun sabers) could lead someone to interpret it as a double edge especially with the shading in the picture Nathan posted... However, I have never seen a double edged Falchion.

ks

[Alex Oster]

Its so strange to me to see the way falchions are embeleshed. Were they primarally a late period Italian sword? I guess I am drawing a blank on the specifics.

[Scott Byler]

I'm looking at this and thinking that it looks to be double hollow ground as well, still single edged. I'd thought about asking about this very question, and this sword when I got the new MRL catalog.

Another note on the painting.... The pommel appears to be canted downward from the blade, to me. Not centered in line with the blade.

[Matthew Kelty]

Quote:

Another note on the painting.... The pommel appears to be canted downward from the blade, to me. Not centered in line with the blade.

I was crawling through my latest book acquisition, 'Swords And Spears / Schwert Und Spiess' by P. Krenn, which is a survey of Swords and Polearms from the Landeszeughaus in Graz, and found some interesting pieces in there, that may shed some light or intimate some influences on the sword in the Painting. It is written in German with a very poor translation in English alongside every piece of text.

Since Styria (the "Nation" Graz was in) was closely influenced by the Hungarian weapons and designs, many of their pieces fall into distinctly "Hungarian/Croatian" and "German" groupings. In the late 16th Century, the Armoury started collecting more and more Hungarian designs, which were being produced in Styria, Passau, and Solingen.

One distiction that was made in describing Hungarian Hilts, is they are primarily U shaped quillons pointing to the Tip, or severely "S" shaped hilts (by severe, I mean more like a 5 as it appears on a Digital Readout, right angles instead of sweeping curves), with one arm forming a knuckle bow, and the other parallel to the blade.

These hilt forms appear on their Estocs, Sabers and Dussagen throughout the Late 16th-Early 17th centuries. The Weapons described as "Hungarian Sabers" and "Dussagen" are almost identical to the Falchion illustrated, with the major difference being the severity of the Clipped Tip. The Dussagen have a much less severe clip. It is also interesting to note they attribute the word "Dussagen" to the Czech word for "Long Knife" (Gross Messer in German), and describe them as Infantry Sabers appearing in the 16th century, primarily among the Styrians.

All of the the Dussagen and Hungarian Sabers are single edged, but all of them feature a distinct double edge at the clip, which comprise about the front 1/4 of the blade.

Also, almost all of the "Hungarian" weapons (i.e. not the Dussagen) have the pommel canted towards the tip.

Lastly, they state that the majority of their late 16th century weapons, regardless of Hungarian or German design, were primarily manufactured in Southern Germany.

So, it could be that the Italian Falchion was influenced by the Styrian Arms, and that the Hungarian Hilts and Blades being produced in Southern Germany migrated to Italy in their influence.

Just curious, where and when was this Painting made (I hadn't seen a reference to that in these threads).

Matthew

[Kirk Lee Spencer]

[Nathan Robinson]

It's worth noting to avoid confusion that not all those shown above are falchions. The last two, in particular, are better called dussack, dussage, or even saber. They certainly do show similar types of blades, though, and give an impression of the shapes that were present throughout history.

[Hisham Gaballa]

Very interesting. Beautiful pictures too. I must confess I know very little about falchions, apart from the fact they were big, heavy and curved. I was also under the impression that falchions are a subtype or variety of sabre.

My understanding is that "sabre" is a generic name for a sword with a relatively long, curved, single-edged blade. So falchions, shamshirs, kilijs, tulwars etc would all fall under the heading of "sabre".

[F. Fain]

Ombo is old Italian for Rombo. In this case it means Rhomboidal (commonly called diamond shape in english as it refers to blades). Sgusciato means Unshelled/Taken out of its case. I am not sure why it is applied here, probably an old figure of speech. There is a fish called Rombo in Italy, probably due to its rhomboidal shape. It doesn't have a shell, but I seem to remember the filets of the fish once skinned are somewhat rhomboidal in shape. Ah, that's all. Just call it a rhomboidal (diamond) section blade and you are spot on.

[Sean Flynt]

[F. Fain]

I think it's perfectly possible it was double edged. Why such a thick center spine otherwise? A thick center ridge almost eliminates the need of a thick back edge to preserve rigidity (in fact, a sword with such a thick cross section in its center would be a solid hunk of steel if it also had a thick back). Therefore, if you thin out the cross section as you go towards the back of the blade, you might as well sharpen it. The end result wouldn't be very different from a very stiff, short medieval single hander with a curved blade which, technically, makes a lot of sense and would allow for a considerably wide repertoire of strikes.
The painting might as well not show the shiny part of the back edge simply because to see both edges the sword would need to be held perfectly flat towards the observer, meaning with one edge perpendicular to the ground and the other to the sky which, dinamically, could have been not very credible as this is supposed to represent a shot in action, not a portrait of someone posing. In any case, this being a double edger seems to, at least, be the interpretation the guys at museumreplicas have decided to subscribe to; http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/showpr...Position=5

BTW, I am tempted by this "sword of st. michael" at $ 165. The only uncertainty I have is that the cross section of the blade doesn't appear to taper that much and woulnd't want to buy something that ends up feeling lumpy and tip heavy (which I am sure the graceful original was not).

Sean, you have a museumreplicas falchion and have given a pretty good review to it. Nevertheless, how is it as far as blade geometry? And would you define it more of an agile and nimble short sabre-type or rather more akin to a machete?

[Sean Flynt]

Most of the MRL swords I've handled feature distal taper (even their glaive blade). If I remember correctly, the feel of the falchion is far-removed from a machete. That solid wheel pommel and long cross bring the balance back toward the hilt, so you have a very powerful cutting blade but not a clumsy bar of steel in terms of weight and balance. I still think that falchion is a great bargain, especially since we have the stats needed to compare it to a similar original weapon. The only reason I sold mine was because it was too far out of my area of collecting interest.

[Bruno Giordan]

L'armature si completa con dettagli all'eroica, quali li pétaso e il corpetto che nobilita la forma del paio di corazze. La storta ha il pomo tondo con dischi rilevati; l'impugnatura è a fuso e l'elso ha bracci chiusi a boccio, con quello di guardia rialzato. Lama a sezione di ombo sgusciato a tutta lunghezza, con punta sbieca. Il rotellino da pugno, tenuto da un semplice bastoncello, è decorato internamente con girali e palmette e sporge a calotta. Un passagio tra questo fornimento e quelli della spade da fanti più tarde si riscontra nell'arma impugnata da san Poalo nel dipinto di Riccardo Quartaro del 1494 conservato nella Galleria Nazionale di Palermo.

Qui la storta è più sofisticata. Pomo a fungo lavorato a baccelli alla base; appetta alla crociera, con bracci a sezione di tondino di cui uno formante la guardia appuntata. Lama ricurva, con punta sbieca; dal tallone sale un gancio di guardia, del tutto insolito.

Vela la penna di ricordare la storta dipinta del Botticelli nella Primavera

TRANSLATION

The armor is completed by details made in the heroical style, they are the petaso (in latin times, a civilian cap such as the one that the God mercurius carries, it might be compared visually to a rounded chapel de fer) and the corpetto (torso related part of the breastplate, I presume), which nobilitates the form of the pair of breastplates.

The falchion (=storta) features a round pommel with protruding (or ridged) discs, the handle (impugnatura) is shuttle shaped, the hilt features arms closed boccio - like (in the shape of a bud? or of a wine fiasco bottom? boccia is a bowling ball also ), the guard arm is lifted.
The blade section is such as a romboid sgusciato (literally: emptied of its shell, like a peeled egg), with a slanted point.
The little hand kept round shueld (rotellino, likely diminutive of rotella), being kept by a simple stick, is decorated by round vegetal motives (typically renaissance) and little palms, it protrudes skull-cap like.

MORE TO COME ..

[Sean Flynt]

[Greyson Brown]

I am undecided as to whether this is intended to be a single or double edged weapons, but I did notice something that should be taken into account.

One of the arguments for this being a single edge sword was that the top edge is clearly defined by a light colored line, while there is no such line on the bottom. My thought is that that line is supposed to represent the light reflecting off of the blade. It could be that the artist did not put that line on the bottom because it is shadowed by the rest of the blade, thus causing no reflection.

Additionally, there is a similar line on the center line of the blade. No one is suggesting that that is a sharp edge. It is simply another place where the plane of the blade is such that it catches the light..

I'm not saying that this blade is double edged; I don't know. I am suggesting that we are running a small risk of putting too much emphasis on a piece of evidence that might be unreliable or simply missinterpreted.

-Grey