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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 2:12 pm    Post subject: Iberian mace and wood sealer         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,
I have received an A&A Iberian Mace, (very nice and very innexpensive) with a custom binding (also very nice) done by our friends in MN. I will eventually post a pic but my computer is a bit cluttered at this time.

Anyway, I was leaving my new mace out on the fire escape to rust and it seems some grime or paint got into the wood so I had to use steel wool to get the stains out and now my mace shaft is naked of the stain it came with. I know that I can go to the hardware store and get some minwax stain for it but I was wondering if anyone has an idea as to how wood was sealed "in period". Indeed even if wood was sealed would it have been necessarily "stained" a darker color.

Could I do something slightly more authentic than modern stain or is that the best way to go?
I know many of you guys have some knowledge of woods and such so I thought I'd give it a try. . .
Jeremy
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You might consider some of the oils rather than stains.

Have you called A&A to see what they put on there originally? If you like what's there, touching it up with the same would settle it in right where it was in the first place.

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 2:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello AAron,
I thought you might know something of this. A&A uses a reddish minwax stain. That is a viable option for me and may be the way I go. I am just looking at options and I really think my questions speak to the larger question as to how should the collector who wants to customize or even make a piece treat the wood components.

When I took steel wool to the stains on the shaft I just got excited and worked the whole thing over. Now the wood is very smooth and has a more "organic" feel than it did origonally. You know the laithe they use to cut the shafts sometimes can feel a bit too "perfect."

When you say "oils" what do you mean? I am also interested as I have said in the question- did medieval craftsman "stain" wood"? Did the sealers they used automatically color the wood?

BTW I tend to ask too many questions in one post. . . Happy
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
I thought you might know something of this. A&A uses a reddish minwax stain. That is a viable option for me and may be the way I go. I am just looking at options and I really think my questions speak to the larger question as to how should the collector who wants to customize or even make a piece treat the wood components.


Gee... getting predictable and settled in, am I? Razz
It's an interesting question, certainly worthy of discussion.

Quote:
You know the laithe they use to cut the shafts sometimes can feel a bit too "perfect."


Yup. I can see Sean Flynt nodding incessantly, too, wherever he is. I like the fact that you are "customizing" this piece. If you had just had a little scuff, I would have suggested you fix it with what was used in the first place. Now that you have prepped it for something else, the world is open.

Quote:
When you say "oils" what do you mean? I am also interested as I have said in the question- did medieval craftsman "stain" wood"? Did the sealers they used automatically color the wood?


Oils like linseed or neatsfoot are what I had in mind. There are ways to add pigments or dyes, too... boiling leaves, for example, can give nice browns and reds... (think tea staining).

I apply a coat of linseed oil every couple of months to my longbow - smells great, treats and seals the wood, and gives a nice, light finish.

Oh, and if you work some grime into it where your hands would be during use, you will get a real period look to it.

Quote:
BTW I tend to ask too many questions in one post. . . Happy


It's cool. Did I catch them all? I'm sure others will chime in, too...

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 6:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes I have used linseed oil to tighten the head on my A&A Danish axe with good effect.

What is the difference between linseed oil and neatsfoot? If I choose to use linseed oil would I just wipe it on (thick or thin?) allow it to dry and then buff it off? Do this once or more times?

That's cool about the leaves- How would I incorperate this dye? Simply boil some leaves (I would prabably use tea) in water and apply it to the wood and let it dry or would I somehow get it in the oil?

Jeremy
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
What is the difference between linseed oil and neatsfoot?


Neatsfoot oil is actually usually used as a leather conditioner. It is "rendered" from feet and shins of either cows or horses, if I remember correctly... Mink oil is another kind of off the wall thought, though it can leave things a little slick.

Quote:
If I choose to use linseed oil would I just wipe it on (thick or thin?) allow it to dry and then buff it off? Do this once or more times?


It tends to go on like it wants to. If the wood soaks it all up, it can take a little more. Don't keep wiping and wiping... put some on so it is damp, walk away for a while (like 15 minutes, or come back in a couple of commercial breaks) and look at it. If it is still damp, wipe the excess off. If it is really dry, put another coat on. No magic formula... you'll know.

Quote:
That's cool about the leaves- How would I incorperate this dye? Simply boil some leaves (I would prabably use tea) in water and apply it to the wood and let it dry or would I somehow get it in the oil?


Take some type of organic material (tea, coffee, bark, red cabbage, beets... something that turns water some color, preferably one you like!) and put it in 3 or 4 cups of water. Simmer it on the stove (brews it, effectively) for an hour or so, making sure to add some water if it gets low. Cool and strain it. Add some alum (1/2 teaspoon should do) to aid as a fixative. Paint it on like the linseed oil, and let it dry. If you want it darker, repeat. You could oil it afterwards to seal it, though you will probably exchange some of the stain for the oil in the process.

Another way to make your own is to add earth pigments to linseed oil or a light to clear varnish.

-Aaron Schnatterly
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

With lindseed oil you let it soak in and wipe off the excess, the trick is to be patient and wait a week or two and repeat for months. You also don't have to wait to handle it, after wipping just use it until the next time you oil it: You don't have to leave it in a corner untouched for all those months.

if you leave a thick amount of it without wipping it will take forever to dry and just be tacky and sticky. ( you want it to penetrate the wood, not get a surface film. )

Once you have a nice finish a light application and wipe once in a long while will maintain a nice satiny luster.

I think military rifle stocks were maintained this way.

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 8:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks guys this is very helpful.
Aaron- what is alum and is it sold at the neighborhood hardware store?
Jeremy
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Mike Pospichal





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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 8:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As far as gun stocks go, I can verify it, my shotgun has an oil finish on the stock and fore arm. Just use gun oil when I'm cleaning the barrels and that has worked well. Like others have said, amount will vary, just apply and take off excess. I have found though that using one rag over and over until it becomes wholly oiled works well instead of using a clean rag every time.
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 10:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If using boiled linseed oil mix it with turpentine or mineral spirits to thin it out a bit. Then apply it with fine steel wool by dipping the steel wool in the mixture, and then rubbing the beejaysus out of the shaft with it. The former will thin the oil and the friction caused be the steel wool will slightly open the pores in the wood, allowing the oil to penetrate.

Tung oil is also another option.

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Cole Sibley




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 11:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tung oil is also a good alternative, I feel it offers a slightly higher quality finnish than linseed oil. I believe it would be fairly period correct as well. Really, like Mike P. said, you can use just about any kind of oil. Just keep using the same kind, oils leach out of wood over time, thus the need for reapplication (depends upon use, sun exposure etc).

I've seen some amazingly beautiful gunstocks (hardwood) that are 'stained' with shoe polish. I've rubbed plain old axle grease into shovel handles and it Really preserves the wood, and was quite good looking as well.
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Aaron Schnatterly




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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jun, 2005 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think everyone thus far has provided good input here. (thanks for the help, guys! Big Grin )

Jeremy V. Krause wrote:
What is alum and is it sold at the neighborhood hardware store?


Check the spice aisle at the grocery store.

Remember the old Tom & Jerry cartoons when Tom eats something or gets something poured in his mouth and his face puckers up so he can't open it to eat Jerry (or his nephew... whatever his name is... Jacques?)? That was alum. Think it happened to Sylvester, too... saved Tweety's butt.

It's really tart, and it thickens.

-Aaron Schnatterly
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