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Martin Wallgren
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 Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject: The Vättern Sword. |
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Check out the sword here. Just scroll down...
http://www.grm.se/grennamuseer/
Sommaren 2000 fick en fiskare i Vättern en ovanlig fångst. Från ca 50m djup drog han upp ett svärd daterat till senare delen av 1400-talet.
Svärdet är i det närmaste intakt, i sin balja, och mäter ca 120 cm. Efter fyra års konservering på Riksantikvarieämbetet är svärdet nu åter på Grenna Museum, i den lokalhistoriska utställningen. Fotografiet visar svärdets fäste med balansknoppen och den karakteristiska svängda parerstången. Foto: Karin Lindahl, Riksantikvarieämbetet.
Ett uppdrag har nu lämnats till vapensmeden Peter Johnsson att smida och tillverka en kopia av Vätternsvärdet. Det är meningen att du som besökare, under kontrollerade former, ska få en upplevelse av originalets vikt och balans.
This roughly translates;
The summer of 2004 a sportsfisherman got somethin different on the hook in the lake Vättern. From a depth of 50 meter he pulled up a sword later dated to the last half of the 15th century. (If somebody wonders about the 1400 in the swedish text we call the 15th century the 14th because the years beginns with 14.) The sword is almost intact, in it´s scabbard and measures close to 120 cetimeter. After four years of concervation of the national concervation board, the sword is now back at the Gränna museum, in the localhistory exebition. The photograf shows the handle with it´s pommel and characteristic S shaped cross. Photo: Karin Lindahl, the national concervation board.
The famous swordsmith Peter Johnsson has now been commisioned to make a replica of the Vättern sword. The plan is to let you as a visitor to the museum, under rigid rules, a chance to feel the weight and balance of original the sword.
... isn´t this great!! And notise that this is not the Svante Nilsson Sture sword that Albion makes a replica of but another. The third Ive now about in Sweden with those extreme lenght on the handle.
Martin
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Russ Ellis
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Martin! Bloody heck why couldn't they show a picture of the whole sword? Now I need to do some looking...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Drat yahoo turned up nothing other then a story saying it was a pair of divers that found the sword... but still no picture. 
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Martin Wallgren
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.grm.se/turistinfo/gruppresor/Gruppresor-2005.pdf
Scroll down and you will see a full pic of it... Its notheing important about it in the text....
It is still in its scabbard
The suspect that sombody whent trugh the Ice of the lake with the sword....
Martin
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Nice piece of history, Martin! Thanks for sharing (and translating).
One of these days, I would like to experience the side-by-side observation of a piece like this and an accurate replication.
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Martin Wallgren
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Well, as I understand it you would be able to do that here in Sweden if you go to Gränna Museum where that sword and the replica is located. Then you could go to the museum in Borås and check out the Svante Sword or go to the Museum of Medival history in Stockholm and check out the tritonia and the replica of that, All by Peter...
would be a nice trip between those towns and Stockholm to... lots of nice countryside... hehe
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Russ Ellis
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin Wallgren wrote: | http://www.grm.se/turistinfo/gruppresor/Gruppresor-2005.pdf
Scroll down and you will see a full pic of it... Its notheing important about it in the text....
It is still in its scabbard
The suspect that sombody whent trugh the Ice of the lake with the sword....
Martin |
Cool thanks! I'd still love to see a clear shot... Still beggars can't be choosers... 
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin Wallgren wrote: | Well, as I understand it you would be able to do that here in Sweden if you go to Gränna Museum where that sword and the replica is located. Then you could go to the museum in Borås and check out the Svante Sword or go to the Museum of Medival history in Stockholm and check out the tritonia and the replica of that, All by Peter...
would be a nice trip between those towns and Stockholm to... lots of nice countryside... hehe |
Does sound like a really nice trip. I'm still interested in sliding over there sometime next year... 
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Martin Wallgren
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | | Martin Wallgren wrote: | Well, as I understand it you would be able to do that here in Sweden if you go to Gränna Museum where that sword and the replica is located. Then you could go to the museum in Borås and check out the Svante Sword or go to the Museum of Medival history in Stockholm and check out the tritonia and the replica of that, All by Peter...
would be a nice trip between those towns and Stockholm to... lots of nice countryside... hehe |
Does sound like a really nice trip. I'm still interested in sliding over there sometime next year... |
Your more than wellcome... Just give me a notice before you board the plane...
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hold it fellas. I'm not sure Peter is even finished with the reconstruction yet. He's got alot on his plate.
But... that does not, however, mean that you aren't welcome Aaron. You still are.
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Martin Wallgren
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | Hold it fellas. I'm not sure Peter is even finished with the reconstruction yet. He's got alot on his plate.
But... that does not, however, mean that you aren't welcome Aaron. You still are. |
Hopefully Peter Reads this and clearify for us, Though I reeeaaaaaly hope it is....
Martin
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, I'm more interested in catching up with you two than I am in this sword... but to see both would be a real treat!
You guys are awesome. Anyway, I've torn off in another direction unintentionally - back to the thread at hand.
I find the speculation of the original owner falling through the ice to be, well, certainly plausible. The first thought I had when I read that was "heck, yeah! I'd be dropping everything I could to be able to swim or get back out." That is... if the owner made it out.
I'd love to know more about the piece.
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | Hey, I'm more interested in catching up with you two than I am in this sword... but to see both would be a real treat!
You guys are awesome. Anyway, I've torn off in another direction unintentionally - back to the thread at hand.
I find the speculation of the original owner falling through the ice to be, well, certainly plausible. The first thought I had when I read that was "heck, yeah! I'd be dropping everything I could to be able to swim or get back out." That is... if the owner made it out.
I'd love to know more about the piece. |
LOL. Yeah, that'd be a treat. We love to beat new people. Did I say "beat". I meant "meet"!  
I totally agree on the sword being a very intriguing piece though. And the speculation that the owner might have gone and done a penguin on us is plausible enough for me. There are certainly other documented instances where exactly such things have happened. The Good Friday Battle of April 6th, 1520 in Uppsala for instance. Historical documents claim that a bunch of German Landsknechte tried to cross the river Fyris during the battle, crashed through the ice and perished in the cold, streaming waters. Coincidentaly a Landsknecht dagger was found in that very river in modern times...
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Martin Wallgren
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | Hey, I'm more interested in catching up with you two than I am in this sword... but to see both would be a real treat!
You guys are awesome. Anyway, I've torn off in another direction unintentionally - back to the thread at hand.
I find the speculation of the original owner falling through the ice to be, well, certainly plausible. The first thought I had when I read that was "heck, yeah! I'd be dropping everything I could to be able to swim or get back out." That is... if the owner made it out.
I'd love to know more about the piece. |
Me too... I will research.
It says that it was found at a depth of 50 meter, hard to retreive without scubagear! And if I remember the Historylessons right travelling and trade was mainly done in the winter in Scandinavia due to much easier travveling by sled on the frosen ground and the ice on the lakes. Heck where I live now there was acctually a battle on the lake between a Norwegian army and a local one in midwinter 1105. The local museum show some skulls and a few arrowheads from that battle...
Martin
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | LOL. Yeah, that'd be a treat. We love to beat new people. Did I say "beat". I meant "meet"! |
Exactly. Wouldn't be my first run-in...
... besides, we're kinsmen! Cut me, I bleed half Swede! I'm a Carlsson (on mom's side)!
| Joachim Nilsson wrote: | | I totally agree on the sword being a very intriguing piece though. And the speculation that the owner might have gone and done a penguin on us is plausible enough for me. There are certainly other documented instances where exactly such things have happened. The Good Friday Battle of April 6th, 1520 in Uppsala for instance. Historical documents claim that a bunch of German Landsknechte tried to cross the river Fyris during the battle, crashed through the ice and perished in the cold, streaming waters. Coincidentaly a Landsknecht dagger was found in that very river in modern times... |
I would imagine it happened quite a few times. Unless that weight is distributed such that the ice will hold, well, it won't hold. Down you go. I'll have to check into that battle - sounds familiar.
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Aaron Schnatterly
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin Wallgren wrote: | Me too... I will research.
It says that it was found at a depth of 50 meter, hard to retreive without scubagear! And if I remember the Historylessons right travelling and trade was mainly done in the winter in Scandinavia due to much easier travveling by sled on the frosen ground and the ice on the lakes. Heck where I live now there was acctually a battle on the lake between a Norwegian army and a local one in midwinter 1105. The local museum show some skulls and a few arrowheads from that battle... |
50 meters - about 152 feet. That busts the safe depth for recreational diving without EAN or mixed gas.
The issue of using sleds to transport goods was known to me, and that thought also crossed my mind. What better "highway" to travel than a wide-open frozen river, or to cross a lake that would otherwise be impassable. This definitely seems a real possibility.
Where I am, there is history, and it is interesting, but you have to look for it - it's like it isn't really important. Where you are, though... man... THAT'S history, and it is still there in the open.
-Aaron Schnatterly
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Fortior Qui Se Vincit
(He is stronger who conquers himself.)
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Martin Wallgren
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: | | Martin Wallgren wrote: | Me too... I will research.
It says that it was found at a depth of 50 meter, hard to retreive without scubagear! And if I remember the Historylessons right travelling and trade was mainly done in the winter in Scandinavia due to much easier travveling by sled on the frosen ground and the ice on the lakes. Heck where I live now there was acctually a battle on the lake between a Norwegian army and a local one in midwinter 1105. The local museum show some skulls and a few arrowheads from that battle... |
50 meters - about 152 feet. That busts the safe depth for recreational diving without EAN or mixed gas.
The issue of using sleds to transport goods was known to me, and that thought also crossed my mind. What better "highway" to travel than a wide-open frozen river, or to cross a lake that would otherwise be impassable. This definitely seems a real possibility.
Where I am, there is history, and it is interesting, but you have to look for it - it's like it isn't really important. Where you are, though... man... THAT'S history, and it is still there in the open. |
Hehe... Jepps, The apartmen I move to on Monday stand less than 200 meters from the most nothern Runestone known, is´t tha cool or... And my Girlfriend is directly related to Gustaf I Eriksson Wasa, king of sweden 1523-1560!!
Well then you are more Swedish than some;)
We have a few things to show you when you come. We´ll have a ball
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: |
Exactly. Wouldn't be my first run-in...
... besides, we're kinsmen! Cut me, I bleed half Swede! I'm a Carlsson (on mom's side)! |
Oooh. A fellow Swede. Nothing better than having a go at other Swedes! Half or not!
| Quote: | | I would imagine it happened quite a few times. Unless that weight is distributed such that the ice will hold, well, it won't hold. Down you go. I'll have to check into that battle - sounds familiar. |
I may have mentioned it before once or twice in various discussions I've participated in. I'm not too sure there's anything published in any other language than Swedish though. The battle became public knowledge fairly recently when they discovered a mass grave in the middle of Uppsala a few summers ago. Until that it was all but forgotten, only known to a handful of the more historically educated. But... If you managed to set your foot on our ancient soil, we'd be more than happy to escort to to the castle in Uppsala. That's where they keep the permanent exhibiton of some of the finds related to that battle. We could even go look for where they found the mass grave in the first place. Not too far from the castle.
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Schnatterly wrote: |
Where I am, there is history, and it is interesting, but you have to look for it - it's like it isn't really important. Where you are, though... man... THAT'S history, and it is still there in the open. |
Unfortunately most native Swedes know SQUAT about their own history or roots. Something I have a very hard time reconciling with...
Heck, we could even take a field trip to Skansen in Stockholm just so you could get the opportunity to reach out and physically touch an old timber cottage dated to the 14th Century. Yes, it's still standing. And yes, you read it correctly: 14th Century. Then we'll go oogle the arms and armour in the Royal Armoury and scuttle through the streets of "Old Town", looking for weapons and stuff in all the old antiquity shops.
EDIT: Hoooold! Sc**w that! Let's just go to PJ's and finger the Svante instead!
Last edited by Joachim Nilsson on Thu 26 May, 2005 3:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Joachim Nilsson
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| Posted: Thu 26 May, 2005 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Martin Wallgren wrote: |
Well then you are more Swedish than some;)
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I see you repressed the memories of our longsword/messer-fencing session, GIPSKATT!
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