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Martin Kallander




Location: Sweden
Joined: 25 Sep 2018

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Tue 06 Aug, 2024 12:22 pm    Post subject: Scale armor cumbersome         Reply with quote

I have been working on a scale armor and the scales feel very cumbersome. Am I doing something wrong or is scale armor just super cumbersome.
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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Posts: 3,641

PostPosted: Tue 06 Aug, 2024 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like the plates are a little too thick. Typical thickness of scales was around 0.5mm or even less. In any case, yes it is very cumbersome. Scale is the heaviest type of armour construction. Lamellar reduced the weight a little by getting rid of the need for a backing material.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Martin Kallander




Location: Sweden
Joined: 25 Sep 2018

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Tue 06 Aug, 2024 9:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Looks like the plates are a little too thick. Typical thickness of scales was around 0.5mm or even less. In any case, yes it is very cumbersome. Scale is the heaviest type of armour construction. Lamellar reduced the weight a little by getting rid of the need for a backing material.
The scales are 0.9 mm so yes they are heavy but the finished thing is going to weigh something like 10kg~ so it's not absurdly heavy. My problem is moreso that it feels way heavier than its actual weight, like how a lamellar armor I used to have felt like after I had removed the lacing that connected the plates horizontally. I think I'm making it incorrectly on a structural level that makes it more cumbersome than it should be regardless of plate thickness
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,462

PostPosted: Wed 07 Aug, 2024 7:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The scales should overlap horizontally, more than yours do. That will close up all those potential gaps. And unfortunately it will increase the number of scales you need, and the weight as well. So, yeah, .9mm is too thick!

Also remember that scales will cut their own stitching, just by the movement of being worn. So tie off your stitching thread at least every third scale (if not *every* scale!) so that you don't end up shedding whole rows.

Have fun!

Matthew
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
Joined: 18 Aug 2012

Posts: 1,303

PostPosted: Wed 07 Aug, 2024 10:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Although it's not the only way to punch or sew scales, the Roman fragment from Carpow at least retained the original stitching and backing fabric, so might be useful.


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Martin Kallander




Location: Sweden
Joined: 25 Sep 2018

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Thu 08 Aug, 2024 3:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Amt wrote:
The scales should overlap horizontally, more than yours do. That will close up all those potential gaps. And unfortunately it will increase the number of scales you need, and the weight as well. So, yeah, .9mm is too thick!

Also remember that scales will cut their own stitching, just by the movement of being worn. So tie off your stitching thread at least every third scale (if not *every* scale!) so that you don't end up shedding whole rows.

Have fun!

Matthew

I have already made 126 0.9 mm scales which were way too labor intensive to abandon just because they're too thick, but I'll be sure to make the remaining scales out of thinner steel. Perhaps one batch of 0.7 mm and then 0.5 mm for the rest? I could put the thickest scales on the front upper torso and have the thinner scales further down and on the back like how chainmail sometimes becomes finer on the extremities?

Currently the scales are attached as close as possible horizontally without being joined together but I could change it so the outermost holes on each scale overlaps.

Quote:
Although it's not the only way to punch or sew scales, the Roman fragment from Carpow at least retained the original stitching and backing fabric, so might be useful.

Yes that looks like a good way to attach scales, having holes in more than just one horizontal row should keep them in place better and make it much less cumbersome methinks.
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

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Posts: 3,641

PostPosted: Sun 11 Aug, 2024 7:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just move the old 0.9mm scales to the chest area and use 0.5mm scales for the rest. If you want to tailor it like mail armour then you use smaller scales for expansion and contraction gussets or you adjust the degree of horizontal overlap between scales in those areas.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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