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Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > clicking noise Albion swords Reply to topic
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wouldn't the stabilized wood Albion uses on their grips make them less susceptible to humidity changes? Perhaps some folks who've worked with wooden grips can comment on how stabilized wood compares to natural wood in terms of humidity changes.

For the record, none of my 5 Albions click. Happy None of the others I've held or used (a couple dozen) clicked.

Happy

ChadA

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J. Hargis




Location: Pacific Palisades, California
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Likes: 22 pages

Posts: 350

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin Smith wrote:
Justin King wrote:
Since Albion makes their swords to resemble period swords as much as possible, maybe the central question should be whether this was common with period swords? Not an easy question to answer, but maybe worth considering for those who collect "historically correct" swords.
I would bet it almost certainly did happen. Wood was vulnerable to humidity then as it is now, and our modern glues/epoxies are vastly superior.

Period swords rarely were the perfect specimens that you see come out of New Glarus. Assemmetries galore, crooked crosses, uneven fullers, etc...

That then raises the question of just how historically accurate are Albion swords, with perfect fullers, guards, precise pommels, etc.

For me, this is one reason I prefer Arms & Armor. While their work is outstanding, you will see many asymmetric elements in their swords and daggers. Much more historical, IMO.

Jon

A poorly maintained weapon is likely to belong to an unsafe and careless fighter.
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Matthew P. Adams




Location: Cape Cod, MA
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Likes: 8 pages

Posts: 462

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I can't seem to find it but Peter Johnsson wrote somewhere in here that he would like to include some more asymmetries in Albions lineup but that the market demands closer to perfect recreations.

I'm a little on the fence on this, I think that if a smith in period had access to a CnC machine, and could crank out swords to within millimeters of the idea in his head, that he absolutely would. I guess it depends on whether you see swords more as an example of an historic artifact, or a tool.

Not that either is better, it just comes back to what you like. Happy

"We do not rise to the level of our expectations. We fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier, Poet, c. 650 BC
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Robin Smith




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Wouldn't the stabilized wood Albion uses on their grips make them less susceptible to humidity changes? Perhaps some folks who've worked with wooden grips can comment on how stabilized wood compares to natural wood in terms of humidity changes.

For the record, none of my 5 Albions click. Happy None of the others I've held or used (a couple dozen) clicked.

Stabilized wood is LESS susceptible, but not insusceptible. Any wood is going to be effected by humidity. Stabilizing reduces the amount, but there is still shrinkage and swelling.

BTW, I haven't worked wood for hilts. But I have worked with alot of woods (cabinet shop) and I'm a fairly decent carpenter.

J. Hargis wrote:
That then raises the question of just how historically accurate are Albion swords, with perfect fullers, guards, precise pommels, etc.

For me, this is one reason I prefer Arms & Armor. While their work is outstanding, you will see many asymmetric elements in their swords and daggers. Much more historical, IMO.

Jon
A historical sword would be made of piled construction of bloomery steel or a single bar of bloomery steel (very low C basically mild steel or iron) and case carburised*. This brings the outer skin up to higher carbon levels, but its not very similar to our modern steels. Plus no cast steel parts. No CNC blanks... Etc...

Albion and A&A make good swords. Both have areas where for reasons of cost or ease of manufacture or other reasons, they have to depart from historical examples. Even on Albions museum line swords you're not seeing real historical metallurgy.

Only way you are going to get a truly historical sword is to buy an antique, followed second by buying from a custom smith. That is not to knock either Albion or A&A. Kings and Princes would have killed for a sword of the quality that Albion or A&A can churn out as every day work.

Edited out unnecessary

A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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J. Hargis




Location: Pacific Palisades, California
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Likes: 22 pages

Posts: 350

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun, 2012 5:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin Smith:
Quote:
A historical sword would be made of piled construction of bloomery steel or a single bar of bloomery steel (very low C basically mild steel or iron) and case carburised*. This brings the outer skin up to higher carbon levels, but its not very similar to our modern steels. Plus no cast steel parts. No CNC blanks... Etc...

Albion and A&A make good swords. Both have areas where for reasons of cost or ease of manufacture or other reasons, they have to depart from historical examples. Even on Albions museum line swords you're not seeing real historical metallurgy.

Only way you are going to get a truly historical sword is to buy an antique, followed second by buying from a custom smith. That is not to knock either Albion or A&A. Kings and Princes would have killed for a sword of the quality that Albion or A&A can churn out as every day work.

Some very valid points Robin, thanks.

However, with all the modern techniques employed there should be even more reason to expect such an expensive sword to be noise free. Obviously it doesn't bother some at this forum, which is fine, but I would find it annoying and disappointing.

Jon

A poorly maintained weapon is likely to belong to an unsafe and careless fighter.
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Robin Smith




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J. Hargis wrote:
However, with all the modern techniques employed there should be even more reason to expect such an expensive sword to be noise free. Obviously it doesn't bother some at this forum, which is fine, but I would find it annoying and disappointing.

Jon

No doubt, which is certainly why (as has already been pointed out) Albion put this on their website:

"Great care was taken in the making and assembly of your Albion sword. However, even with the pains taken to seal and stabilize all of the organic materials used, extremes in temperature and humidity can sometimes create small expansions and shrinkage that lead to potential loosening of the hilt. Although rare, should this occur we offer refurbishment and repair by our shop at no cost to you apart from return shipping. All Albion Mark swords are guaranteed for life against defects in materials and workmanship."

The only way you are going to avoid such issues is just totally departing from historical construction methods and going with plastic grip cores or something.

A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Brandt Giese




Location: Everett. Wa
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
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Posts: 111

PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin Smith wrote,

Quote:
No doubt, which is certainly why (as has already been pointed out) Albion put this on their website:

"Great care was taken in the making and assembly of your Albion sword. However, even with the pains taken to seal and stabilize all of the organic materials used, extremes in temperature and humidity can sometimes create small expansions and shrinkage that lead to potential loosening of the hilt. Although rare, should this occur we offer refurbishment and repair by our shop at no cost to you apart from return shipping. All Albion Mark swords are guaranteed for life against defects in materials and workmanship."

The only way you are going to avoid such issues is just totally departing from historical construction methods and going with plastic grip cores or something.


I feel as though we are beating a dead horse but please read the warranty. 1) I do not live in an area with extreme temps. 2) we have a good geographic sampling of responses with the issue even from the climate where the swords were manufactured. 3) there are no loose hilts. 4) Many swords with the noise have been fixed.

I would like to point out once again that this issue according to Mike at Albion is not a humidity expansion issue but an epoxy issue. He also stated something to the effect that it in no way hinders the integrity of the sword and is simply a noise which Albion will gladly repair if sent in.

Two of my swords have this issue and click through all 4 seasons. This is not a major issue for me as I will continue to buy Albions and I most certainly am not scared the world is going to stop spinning on its axis. The original post was a question concerning this issue and if potentially it led to greater issues which clearly it has not. I do not in anyway bash Albion as I have nothing but good things to say about them. The responses received on the issue back up Mike's response to me and confirms the integrity of Albion and their swords. I am still left with a couple thoughts to which I will leave for Albion as I do not want them or myself misconstrued.

Thanks Brandt
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Stratos Diakoniarakis




Location: East Rockaway, NY, United States
Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed 25 Sep, 2019 12:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anyone know if you buy an Albion second-hand, if the warranty still applies for fixes? Or does it only apply if you buy it from them directly? Thanks.
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Stratos Diakoniarakis




Location: East Rockaway, NY, United States
Joined: 26 Jan 2004

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed 03 Aug, 2022 7:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stratos Diakoniarakis wrote:
Anyone know if you buy an Albion second-hand, if the warranty still applies for fixes? Or does it only apply if you buy it from them directly? Thanks.


Anyone know?
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Thu 04 Aug, 2022 1:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stratos Diakoniarakis wrote:
Stratos Diakoniarakis wrote:
Anyone know if you buy an Albion second-hand, if the warranty still applies for fixes? Or does it only apply if you buy it from them directly? Thanks.


Anyone know?


Albion certainly would know. Id ask them directly. Happy

Happy

ChadA

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