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Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 193

PostPosted: Thu 14 Oct, 2021 3:09 am    Post subject: Brigandine with a lance rest?         Reply with quote

I have seen the below drawing of a lance rest equipped brigandine (from Handbuch der Waffenkunde by Wendelin Boeheim as it turns out) floating around the internet for a long while but never bothered to track it down because I figured this thing could not possibly be real since any attempt to actually use the lance rest for it's intended purpose would surely rip the brigandine apart. Recently, however, I came across the below photo and discovered that not only was this thing for real, it originally came with a matching peaked/brimmed celata/sallet. Originally this kit belonged to one Jakob von Ems, a Landsknecht Oberst who was shot while assaulting Spanish field fortifications at Ravenna in 1512 at the head of 5000 Landsknechts in French service who had defied Maximilian I's famous recall order. These were apparently the same bunch of Quislings that were later wiped out by Frundsberg's loyalist Landsknechts at Pavia in 1525 (surprisingly, even in the 16th century, patriotism sometimes won out over mercenary greed). At some point this helmet/brigandine found their way into the Royal Austrian Historic Arms collection. Does anybody know where this helmet and brigandine are located now? Hopefully they were not burned up during a WWII air raid ...





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Michael Zimmermann





Joined: 19 Dec 2018

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2021 6:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi there,

well, it says here, that this guy gave the armour of Jakob von Ems and his portrait to Archduke Ferdinand II for his gallery at Ambras:

https://www.deutsche-biographie.de/sfz57173.html

Also, according to this entry the brigandine (and the other suits of armour gifted by Jakob Hannibal) are now either in the Neue Hofburg (that is the HJRK) or the Kunsthistorisches Museum.

In Boeheim's Handbuch there is also a view of the back:

https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/boeheim1890/0120

It is listed in Boeheim's guide from 1889 on p. 36, n° 130:

https://archive.org/details/Waffen-sammlung/page/n39/mode/1up?q=embs

I don't have access to the 1936 catalogue right now, but it's not in Thomas' catalague of 1976. I also cannot find it in the concordance.

Can't find it in the database of the KHM, but will have a mosey round the 1936 catalogue and report back.

Best,

- Michael
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Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 193

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2021 7:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Zimmermann wrote:
Hi there,

well, it says here, that this guy gave the armour of Jakob von Ems and his portrait to Archduke Ferdinand II for his gallery at Ambras:

https://www.deutsche-biographie.de/sfz57173.html

Also, according to this entry the brigandine (and the other suits of armour gifted by Jakob Hannibal) are now either in the Neue Hofburg (that is the HJRK) or the Kunsthistorisches Museum.

In Boeheim's Handbuch there is also a view of the back:

https://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/boeheim1890/0120

It is listed in Boeheim's guide from 1889 on p. 36, n° 130:

https://archive.org/details/Waffen-sammlung/page/n39/mode/1up?q=embs

I don't have access to the 1936 catalogue right now, but it's not in Thomas' catalague of 1976. I also cannot find it in the concordance.

Can't find it in the database of the KHM, but will have a mosey round the 1936 catalogue and report back.

Best,


The KHM catalogue is here:

https://www.khm.at/objektdb/?id=11227&L=0&view=0&facet_date=-4500%3B2018&sort=score%3Adesc

I wasn't able to find anything there but then the Austrians sometimes tag things in weird ways that makes stuff hard to find. I'll go through my photos from Schloss Ambras, I really want to get a good look at that helmet.


Last edited by Kristjan Runarsson on Fri 15 Oct, 2021 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Michael Zimmermann





Joined: 19 Dec 2018

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Fri 15 Oct, 2021 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, that's what I meant by 'KHM database'. I can't find anything under his name (all spellings I'm aware of), neither is there anything to be found by searching for 'Sturmhaube', 'Brigantine' or 'Korazin'. Also, 'Panzer', 'Harnisch'.

Where did you find the photo? Perhaps, that would give you a clue as to the last date it definitely was part of the collection at least.

- Michael
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Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 193

PostPosted: Sat 16 Oct, 2021 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Zimmermann wrote:
Yes, that's what I meant by 'KHM database'. I can't find anything under his name (all spellings I'm aware of), neither is there anything to be found by searching for 'Sturmhaube', 'Brigantine' or 'Korazin'. Also, 'Panzer', 'Harnisch'.

Where did you find the photo? Perhaps, that would give you a clue as to the last date it definitely was part of the collection at least.


I found it on Pinterest where it had been pinned from some Russian social networking website that turned out to be a complete dead end. I only picked up on it because I'm trying to convert a transitional sallet into a peaked sallet and that helmet caught my interest. Then it hit me that the brigandine was actual proof of that drawing in Wendelin Boheim's book being for real. The reason I want to get a closer look at the helmet is that it seems to retain a period velvet helmet cover. This kit seems to have been kept at the Austrian Artillery/Army Museum at one point before WWII during which the museum was gutted by Allied bombers which is why I wondered if this harness had gone up in smoke.



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Michael Zimmermann





Joined: 19 Dec 2018

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sat 23 Oct, 2021 5:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So, I have the 1936 catalogue in hand now: Both the brigandine and the Sturmhaube are there at the time, listed under the inventory number A 190.
The short entry mentions that there are armourers' marks (presumably on the helmet), which is why it is tentatively said to be of Florentine manufacture. I have no idea how reliable these attributions are in this period, so do take it with a large pinch of salt.

As to the velvet cover: interesting, though I do believe there are period velvet remnants on a sallet(?) in Munich. In the absence of better photographs of the Sturmhaube, which seems to be either missing or relegated to deep storage at the HJRK, this might be a more promising lead for you to pursue.

Best,

- Michael
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Clifford Rogers





Joined: 11 Mar 2012

Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon 25 Oct, 2021 12:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brigandines with lance rests were, based on textual evidence, not uncommon in the late c15; they were probably for use with a light lance (lancegay) rather than a heavy lance.
Clifford J. Rogers
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Michael Zimmermann





Joined: 19 Dec 2018

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2021 2:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is the one in the BNM I mentioned above. Fabric condition seems almost too good to be true, maybe 19th c 'restoration'?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/98015679@N04/9183447741/in/album-72157634422842815/

Hope this helps.

- Michael
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 853

PostPosted: Fri 05 Nov, 2021 6:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The 'brigandine of Jakob von Ems' has been published twice with extensive photos and descriptions in:

Paul Post, “Ein Panzerfragment aus der frühzeit der Brigandine,” Zeitschrift für historische Waffen- und Kostümkunde XVI - Neue Folge 7 (1944), pp. 225-239 (Abb. 16a)

Christa Angermann and Martina Poyer, "Konservatorische Bestandaufnahme der Brigantinen im Kunsthistorischen Museum in Wien / Le brigantine del Kunsthistorisches Museum di Vienna: un inventario per la loro conservazione." In Konrad Spindler and Harald Stadler (eds.), Das Brigantinen-Symposium auf Schloss Tyrol, Nearchos Sonderheft 9 (Landesmuseum Schloss Tirol: Meran, 2004) pp. 148-153 (KHM Wien A 190)

www.bookandsword.com
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Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 193

PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov, 2021 1:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Manning wrote:
The 'brigandine of Jakob von Ems' has been published twice with extensive photos and descriptions in:

Paul Post, “Ein Panzerfragment aus der frühzeit der Brigandine,” Zeitschrift für historische Waffen- und Kostümkunde XVI - Neue Folge 7 (1944), pp. 225-239 (Abb. 16a)

Christa Angermann and Martina Poyer, "Konservatorische Bestandaufnahme der Brigantinen im Kunsthistorischen Museum in Wien / Le brigantine del Kunsthistorisches Museum di Vienna: un inventario per la loro conservazione." In Konrad Spindler and Harald Stadler (eds.), Das Brigantinen-Symposium auf Schloss Tyrol, Nearchos Sonderheft 9 (Landesmuseum Schloss Tirol: Meran, 2004) pp. 148-153 (KHM Wien A 190)


Thanks, but both of those seem to be unobtainable and I'm more interested in the helmet.
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 853

PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov, 2021 7:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kristjan Runarsson wrote:
Thanks, but both of those seem to be unobtainable and I'm more interested in the helmet.

The article from 2004 covers the barbuta or burgonet too. They think the brigandine is from around 1460 and the helmet seems to be covered in the same satin.

Quote:
Die zugehörige Sturmhaube ist in gutem Zustand: ihr rotes wattertes Futter aus Seidensatin zeigt normale Alterung, der Samt außen ebenfalls. Sie wurden in den fünfziger Jahren zufriedenstellend restauriert. Die Montage an den Eisenhelm ist nícht mehr ganz identisch mit der originalen Situation. Nicht alle Niete wurden wiedereingesetzt.

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Ali Zufer





Joined: 07 Sep 2018

Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun, 2023 9:33 pm    Post subject: Brigandine with lance rest, attributed to the Von Ems family         Reply with quote

I today found out that this brigandine seems to have ended up in the Royal Armouries in the 1980s in quite a horrible state. Someone showed me a pinterest photo of it uploaded by Augusto Boer Bront from Magister Armororum, where he labels it as the III.1665 from Leeds. This is undoubtedly the same brigandine, the overall shape is similar, it contains traces of the lance rest having been removed, and the rivets are all in the same spots. It is also red, as described by Boeheim.

https://www.pinterest.se/pin/294845106869611029/

The RA page itself doesn't have these photos of it, it only seems to depict it in its fragments, so that is why it had slipped my notice until now.
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-13551.html

It's a shame it ended up in this horrible shape, however at least we know where it is.

Correcting misconceptions with misconceptions is not the greatest idea and should seek to be avoided at all costs.
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 853

PostPosted: Wed 14 Jun, 2023 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Brigandine with lance rest, attributed to the Von Ems fa         Reply with quote

Ali Zufer wrote:
I today found out that this brigandine seems to have ended up in the Royal Armouries in the 1980s in quite a horrible state. Someone showed me a pinterest photo of it uploaded by Augusto Boer Bront from Magister Armororum, where he labels it as the III.1665 from Leeds. This is undoubtedly the same brigandine, the overall shape is similar, it contains traces of the lance rest having been removed, and the rivets are all in the same spots. It is also red, as described by Boeheim.

Cool artifact!

The KHM Wien A 190 brigandine was still in Vienna when Christa Angermann and Martina Poyer published it with colour photos in 2004. Therefore, it can not have been in the possession of a French dealer in 1980, and the one that dealer sold the Royal Armouries was another brigandine of similar date. I think Angermann and Poyer call it a Korazin in the Deutsch text and corrazina in the Italian text (the volume is bilingual Italian-German).

Edit: the colour photo on pinterest is from Angermann and Poyer's article, therefore it is Vienna, KHM A 190 not Leeds, Royal Armouries III.1665

The Royal Armouries cite an article by Ian Eaves. It is well worth owning on brigandines and jacks of plates in general, I got my copy a few years ago by emailing the Arms and Armour Society and having them dig up a back issue from their garage or shed.

Ian Eaves, 'On the Remains of a Jack of Plate Excavated from Beeston Castle in Cheshire', The Journal of The Arms and Armour Society, vol.XIII, no.2, September 1989, pp.81-154

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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 853

PostPosted: Thu 15 Jun, 2023 12:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

here are two pages from the article by Angermann and Poyer which describes the conservation and state of brigandines in the Kunsthistorisches Museum, Wien in 2002:





Many libraries in Europe should be able to borrow a copy through interlibrary loan.

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