Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Very early Burgonets Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 177

PostPosted: Sun 05 Sep, 2021 10:58 am    Post subject: Very early Burgonets         Reply with quote

I've been doing some research on early burgonets or skull caps depending on how you look at them (and I have read the burgonet spotlight article but it starts in 1535 and I'm thinking about the period from around 1510 to 1535). I've noticed a few of these very early burgonets that either have or appear to have had nasals. I'm wondering if this is a 17th century retrofit or if they had this at the time they were made (Q1 16th century).

Also, has anybody seen this exact type of helmet depicted in early 16th century art? ... with or without nasal?

The helmet with the nasal is: W1933
The helmet without a nasal is: W3035
Both in the Germanisches National Museum.





 Attachment: 488.28 KB
[ Download ]

 Attachment: 253.8 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message
Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 177

PostPosted: Mon 06 Sep, 2021 1:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok, so I went through a bunch of sources and found something in the „Thunsches Skizzenbuch“ that dates to 1495-1500 and 1530-1540 respectively. The painting, which is also interesting, is the Resurrection scene from the Wurzel-Jesse-Altar from Mühlbach, Siebenbürgen (1518). Still no luck with finding illustrations of actual Landsknechts wearing one of these things except for the Hirnhaube with the long lobster tail neck guard.

It's also interesting how some of the helmets from the Skitzenbuch seem to be tied off with a loop just like W3035 is rather than being fitted with a buckle.

I have no idea what these crazy forehead attachments are supposed to do but they do seem like they might attach to the kind of tab seen on W3035. It doesn't seem like too much of a leap that they would have attached a nasal to one of these things.



 Attachment: 350.04 KB
Early Burgonets 2.jpg


 Attachment: 407.38 KB
Early Burgonets 1.jpg


 Attachment: 489.79 KB
Early Burgonets 3.jpg

View user's profile Send private message
Anthony Clipsom




Location: YORKSHIRE, UK
Joined: 27 Jul 2009

Posts: 186

PostPosted: Tue 07 Sep, 2021 1:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
I have no idea what these crazy forehead attachments are supposed to do but they do seem like they might attach to the kind of tab seen on W3035. It doesn't seem like too much of a leap that they would have attached a nasal to one of these things.


Observing the two examples with the three wavy bars, perhaps they are a face protection that hinges (or maybe turns), so can be worn up or down like a visor?

Anthony Clipsom
View user's profile Send private message
Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 177

PostPosted: Tue 07 Sep, 2021 1:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Observing the two examples with the three wavy bars, perhaps they are a face protection that hinges (or maybe turns), so can be worn up or down like a visor?


I thought about that for a while but these 'bird foot nasals' seem to be more of an encumbrance than anything else and the singe tab attachment seems a bit flimsy. I'm currently leaning towards these bird foot nasals being some kind of decoration. You may have a point about the turning around bit, I think the helmet on the left has the nasal on up side down.

Meanwhile I found some more artwork.



 Attachment: 57.15 KB
13692c8e39852b4fb1aecd8d6cbd9fa3.jpg


 Attachment: 69.83 KB
6a51cce75e2ccd0ffbbb48a890c0dbf1.jpg



Last edited by Kristjan Runarsson on Tue 07 Sep, 2021 1:58 am; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Kristjan Runarsson





Joined: 07 Nov 2015

Posts: 177

PostPosted: Tue 07 Sep, 2021 1:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And I almost forgot this classic:




 Attachment: 141.88 KB
[ Download ]
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Very early Burgonets
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2021 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum