4th-5th century spatha with wide guard -- myArmoury.com

Len Parker

Scroll down a bit https://www.roma-victrix.com/summa-divisio/armamentarium/pugiones-gladii-et-spathae/spathae-i-v-sec-d-c.html Any info on this? Is it legit and is it roman?

Matthew Amt · Posted: Sat 29 May, 2021 4:38 am Post subject:

Wacky. Mind you, the late Roman stuff isn't my strong area, but it's certainly not like anything I've ever seen. So my guess is that either someone dropped a later guard (maybe MUCH later) onto the tang, or someone took a much later sword and stuck that chape on the tip. OR all 3 parts were just stuck together and don't really go together.

Some of the other blades on that page, well, let's just say I'm a little skeptical of their dates, not that "4th-5th century" is very precise. Just gut reactions.

Matthew

Victor R. · Posted: Sat 29 May, 2021 11:18 am Post subject:

Are you positive it's a guard, or potentially a scabbard fitting? The tabs on the ends could be part of a suspension system of some sort. Given the prevalence of organic grips, including pommel and guard, in that era, and the presence of the chape, I'd lean more towards fitting than cross. Speculation for certain, but possibly within the real of reason.

Len Parker · Posted: Sat 29 May, 2021 5:37 pm Post subject:

It's actually not that wide. If the tang is 13 cm long then the guard (if that's what it is) would be about 8.5 cm wide. There are plenty of guards wider in this period. It's the shape that's unique.

Matthew Amt · Posted: Sun 30 May, 2021 5:23 am Post subject:

Len Parker · Posted: Wed 02 Jun, 2021 5:17 am Post subject:

Here's another roman sword with a unique guard (half way down) https://www.academia.edu/41330119/The_Roman_sword_from_the_Przeworsk_culture_cemetery_at_Jadowniki_Mokre_Ma%C5%82opolskie_province

[edit] Here's a better pic: https://frisiacoasttrail.files.wordpress.com/2020/10/millingen-aan-de-rijn-ad-1-50.jpg?w=1024 Maybe this is just a normal guard plate that's folded over. I can't tell.

Len Parker · Posted: Fri 25 Jun, 2021 6:46 pm Post subject:

These are migration period swords from museums in Russia: https://www.academia.edu/38112923/Great_Migration_period_Swords_in_the_museum_collections_in_Central_Russia
It's a small picture but look at the sword laying down in the first group of pics. I don't read Russian but it looks like I'm seeing iv to vi century at top for these.

Matthew Amt · Posted: Sat 26 Jun, 2021 4:29 am Post subject:

Len Parker · Posted: Sat 26 Jun, 2021 8:38 am Post subject:

Yes, it's too small to tell. Here's an earlier carving with a wide guard: https://holylandphotos.org/browse.asp?s=1,3,7,20,110&img=TWNAPM08
[Edit] Probably meant to be a Greek sword.

Alex Indman · Posted: Sun 27 Jun, 2021 4:22 pm Post subject:

Matthew Amt · Posted: Sun 27 Jun, 2021 5:03 pm Post subject:

Len Parker · Posted: Mon 28 Jun, 2021 4:07 am Post subject:

Thank you Alex. Yes it helps.

Paul Hansen

Len Parker · Posted: Sun 07 Nov, 2021 1:29 am Post subject:

Paul, I think you're right. It has a similar look to this one from the crimea: https://get.google.com/albumarchive/112795803340452839061/album/AF1QipPr9n2PyJh67PqUTAiq0M5Pp0rB_eAA6YrJehzC