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Stephen Curtin




Location: Cork, Ireland
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat 02 Nov, 2019 3:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As always your efforts are much appreciated Sean.
Éirinn go Brách
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Jonathan Dean




Location: Australia
Joined: 16 Feb 2019

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov, 2019 10:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I might be remembering wrongly, because I can't find it now, but wasn't there a guild regulation where aketons were made in quarters? I know the famous 1450/Louis XI jack was made in quarters, the pourpoint of Charles VI was made in quarters, and so was the 16th century Rothwell jack. It would be interesting to know how Middle Eastern, Indian and East Asian quilted armour was made and whether it was also assembled from quarters.
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Fri 08 Nov, 2019 5:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Dean wrote:
I might be remembering wrongly, because I can't find it now, but wasn't there a guild regulation where aketons were made in quarters? I know the famous 1450/Louis XI jack was made in quarters, the pourpoint of Charles VI was made in quarters, and so was the 16th century Rothwell jack. It would be interesting to know how Middle Eastern, Indian and East Asian quilted armour was made and whether it was also assembled from quarters.

Aside from the French ordonance of Louis XI, could you be thinking of the order for a doublet of defense in Sir John Howard's accounts with the fore quarters and rear quarters built differently? I have a 'modernization' somewhere under Late Medieval.

There are also Peter Beatson's article on Sudanese quilted coats which are built like high medieval clothing, and I have an article on petí cuirasses from India.

I would like to see more sources from North Africa/Syria/Iran/India in the Middle Ages too, but I am at the mercy of what people like David Nicolle and Manouchehr Khourasani point me to (and to the available translations). David Nicolle has written somewhere that many earliest Arabic military treatises have never been properly edited, and since he is an independent scholar he can't afford to commit the time and the airfare and do it himself.

www.bookandsword.com
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Jonathan Dean




Location: Australia
Joined: 16 Feb 2019

Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri 08 Nov, 2019 2:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No, that's not the one I had in mind, but it is one that had slipped my mind.

The peti cuirasses are particularly interesting. The one being restored definitely seems to be made with quarters, as the late medieval garments seem to have been made. The Sudanese garment is more complex, but also argues for a paneled construction.

It's a real shame there isn't the interest/funding for properly editing and translating the early Islamic texts.
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Wed 08 Apr, 2020 7:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In honour of the recent thread on linen armour and crossbows, I took a few minutes to translate a clause in the rule of the armourers and brigandine-makers of Angers from 1488 which deals with proofing white harness and brigandines. It presents the hook crossbow (ie. spanned with a belt hook) and hand bow as equally threatening, and less threatening than another type of crossbow, probably the kind with a windlass.

There is also the Chronicon Colmariense for March 1298 which says that soldiers with a wambasia (gambeson) and a camisia ferrea (iron shirt) cannot be harmed with any "arrow from a bow."

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James Arlen Gillaspie
Industry Professional



Location: upstate NY
Joined: 10 Nov 2005

Posts: 564

PostPosted: Wed 08 Apr, 2020 8:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"pounds poix de marc"... What is this unit in modern units (pound and kilogram)?
jamesarlen.com
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Sean Manning




Location: Austria
Joined: 23 Mar 2008

Posts: 559

PostPosted: Wed 08 Apr, 2020 8:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James Arlen Gillaspie wrote:
"pounds poix de marc"... What is this unit in modern units (pound and kilogram)?

I have a paper article with estimates based mostly on 16th/17th/18th century handbooks for merchants, but its in my office at the university which I don't have access to until the pest has faded away. I am used to unit conversions being easy (find 20 stones saying "1 pound, weight of Darius the King" or "1 pound by the measure of the Athenians" and take the average in grams, check the dimensions of stone architecture and roof tiles against the stone with a line labeled "one foot") but medievalists don't seem to have written a handy reference just a few hard-to-find books.

John Hill also describes the type of cuirass he wants in terms of weight, Datini catalogued mail by type of garment and weight in pounds.

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