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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Fri 03 May, 2019 12:47 pm    Post subject: What angle to sharpen an Albion sword?         Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I know this is answered here somewhere but I just needed the answer to this specific question- didn't need a thesis on the matter.

Specifically I am using a diamond stone and going to sharpen a Reeve which is pretty close to sharp enough for me- I just need to make it a bit more keen. Around what angle should I shoot for along the edge in sharpening this sword?

Thanks for your help!
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Michael A. H.




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PostPosted: Sun 05 May, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hear hear - I also would be interested about the Reeve, as well as the Albion Oakshot ...
Michael

Michael

"Its just the laudanum speaking." Stephen Maturin
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T. Kew




Location: Cambridge, UK
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PostPosted: Wed 08 May, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So, you have two main options.

The hard way is to figure out how it's been sharpened and match that. You can do this by taking a very fine grit stone, or a hone or similar, and gently making a couple of passes on the edge at some angle. See whether it's polishing exactly to the edge, adjust as appropriate. With some time and practice you can use this to find out exactly how the sword was sharpened and then match that angle on your future work.

The easy way is just to grind a 40 degree edge onto it. This is what I do for HEMA use - belt sander, very light pressure, work from coarse grits up to fine ones. Depending on exactly how it was sharpened this might leave a small secondary bevel, so if you want to optimise for display it might not be the way to go. But functionally it's very effective and makes resharpening extremely easy.

Instructor and scholar, Cambridge HEMA
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 08 May, 2019 2:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

T. Kew wrote:
The easy way is just to grind a 40 degree edge onto it. This is what I do for HEMA use - belt sander, very light pressure, work from coarse grits up to fine ones. Depending on exactly how it was sharpened this might leave a small secondary bevel, so if you want to optimise for display it might not be the way to go. But functionally it's very effective and makes resharpening extremely easy.


I think 40 degrees is pretty standard for most of their edges.

Happy

ChadA

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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Wed 08 May, 2019 6:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Out of curiosity, why do you need the sword to be a bit sharper if it's fairly sharp already?
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Lance Morris




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PostPosted: Thu 09 May, 2019 4:43 am    Post subject: Swords         Reply with quote

Hey guys!

I'm not sure what degrees but an apple seed edge is a very good edge
I love having sharp sharp swords
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Thu 09 May, 2019 6:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Out of curiosity, why do you need the sword to be a bit sharper if it's fairly sharp already?


It doesn't "bite" into my fingernail. It used to but then I took some stains off using a scotchbrite pad and think I dulled it a bit.

My Solingen and Duke are quite a bit sharper than my Reeve.

I'm sure the sharpness of my Reeve is still within historical parameters though.
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James Arlen Gillaspie
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PostPosted: Tue 14 May, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

An 'apple seed edge' is not a bevel in the simple geometric sense at all. It can be seen macroscopically in (real) Japanese swords which have 'hamaguriba', or 'clamshell' edges, which are convex, like a lens. This makes it much more impact resistant. It does, however, need a degree of skill to sharpen, as you are following the natural form of the convex edge, not imposing a bevel onto it.
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Michael Beeching





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PostPosted: Wed 15 May, 2019 2:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Forgive me of any ignorance I may espouse here, but I would argue the appleseed edge is just about as difficult as it is easy to hone.

1. The difficulty is found in having the initial geometry, and the initial geometry is often flat! Therefore, in today's market of arms made by machine tools, having a lenticular edge is a rarity from the get-go. This in turn means the end user must spend a great amount of time honing this edge, often grinding against some very tough steel in the process. Up against those odds, just following the original edge grind seems like a safer and easier bet.

2. Conversely, once the appleseed edge is present on the weapon, sharpening is not that difficult. Continuously varying the sharpening angle within appropriate limits is quite easy: make long passes at consistent angles, and vary the angle between passes as is necessary to follow the curvature of the edge. All of this can be done by feel. Certainly, planar edges can also be done by feel as well, though I cannot comment on how scientifically effective those edges are. Appleseed edges eliminate a large degree of the numeric quandary by allowing a comparatively broad edge base to transition to an incredibly fine edge, while also having very few of the durability issues associated with fine edges.

...We use cold chisels at work, and I always put an appleseed edge on those. The only problem comes in when someone who doesn't know how to sharpen a chisel comes in and puts a crude planar edge on them. They are in fact incredibly easy to sharpen on a pedestal grinder if you just follow the existing geometry back to the original point - no angles needed! Granted, you will not fit many swords or knives against such a grinder with any easy whatsoever, but the point remains the same.
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Mikko Kuusirati




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PostPosted: Wed 15 May, 2019 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On the other hand, if you use hand tools it's quite hard to avoid developing a convex bevel over time, regardless.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 16 May, 2019 5:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mikko Kuusirati wrote:
On the other hand, if you use hand tools it's quite hard to avoid developing a convex bevel over time, regardless.


A lot depends on how dull an edge one has to restore to decent sharpness, but with a diamond hone or a ceramic hone one can do an apple seed by hand if one is very very patient.

And as Mikko said trying to get a perfect flat secondary edge bevel is actually harder than getting an apple seed bevel even by accident.

Years of doing this by hand has almost locked in the angle in my hand, and it might take some practice.

With a hand held hone moved along the long edges of a sword, the sword doesn't move as one moves the hone as opposed to sharpening a knife on a stone where it's the knife moving on the fixed stone: Doing this by hand still takes a lot of practice to keep a consistent angle but with the shorter edges of a knife getting a flat secondary edge is a lot easier than with the 30" long edges of a sword.

It also takes practice and skill to do this safely and full attention to what one is doing if one wants to avoid cutting oneself Wink

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Sun 19 May, 2019 7:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got it done.

It really was pretty easy as it was pretty close to sharp enough for me.

Thanks everyone, for your help!
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