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Here's the site for this mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mail_armour_images_from_Livrustkammaren Most of these look eastern. That second mail pic I showed looks more like indian or late russian to me. There are other shirts here showing the same technique, where it looks like direct hammer to ring contact is happening.
Len Parker wrote:
Here's the site for this mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mail_armour_images_from_Livrustkammaren Most of these look eastern. That second mail pic I showed looks more like indian or late russian to me. There are other shirts here showing the same technique, where it looks like direct hammer to ring contact is happening.


A great collection but look at the horrible images, what a waste, we could probably learn a lot from these armors if they were correctly photographed but dont hold your breath.
What do you think of this: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368072049373 "Lower body and sleeves are not riveted but soldered rings with round cross-section"

This might be the same shirt: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/124412008430633808 "each rivet reinforced with latten solder, the lower body and arms of butted rings similarly reinforced"
I found the shirt: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368072049347 but no close-ups yet. The sleeves and bottom definitely look different.
Eric S wrote:
Len Parker wrote:
Here's the site for this mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Mail_armour_images_from_Livrustkammaren Most of these look eastern. That second mail pic I showed looks more like indian or late russian to me. There are other shirts here showing the same technique, where it looks like direct hammer to ring contact is happening.


A great collection but look at the horrible images, what a waste, we could probably learn a lot from these armors if they were correctly photographed but dont hold your breath.


Actually Eric, at least some of the photographs are excellent. You simply have to download the original file from Wikipedia. The image entitled "Ringbrynja_med_halvarmar_-_Livrustkammaren_-_106763.tif" is 6,870 pixels by 5,402 pixels in size, for example. Here's a close up of a section of the mail in the picture, so you can see what that looks like.


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I didn't get Eric's criticism. I thought he just being picky. Here's the wikimedia site with the larger sizes of that flattened mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pansarskjorte%C3%A4rm,_Alskogs_ka_-_Livrustkammaren_-_19343.tif I would say that it looks flattened. There is a slight bump around the rivet but not pronounced like it usually is. I don't know how to prove it's european other than it looks similar to the tofta coif.
Here's the main page for all the links: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Historical_mail_armour
Len Parker wrote:
I didn't get Eric's criticism. I thought he just being picky. Here's the wikimedia site with the larger sizes of that flattened mail: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pansarskjorte%C3%A4rm,_Alskogs_ka_-_Livrustkammaren_-_19343.tif I would say that it looks flattened. There is a slight bump around the rivet but not pronounced like it usually is. I don't know how to prove it's european other than it looks similar to the tofta coif.
len, your right about this image, its very clear, close and detailed, and there are some other very good images as will but there are a huge amount of armor images and weapons images at the museum, including a lot of really rare armors that do not have close detailed images. Before they were on Wiki I would use the museum database and I guess I am a bit fustrated seeing all these amazing items were you can not see the details.
Looks like all butted from Sweden http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=47828 Click on Stor for large size. Could be a patch but who knows.
Take a look at this: http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=47815 I think I'm seeing all riveted. It's from a viking grave in Gotland. Click Stor for large size.
Need a much bigger photo than that.
Len Parker wrote:
Looks like all butted from Sweden http://mis.historiska.se/mis/sok/bild.asp?uid=47828 Click on Stor for large size. Could be a patch but who knows.


Huh, I'm seeing some little bumps or bulges that look like riveted joints to me. Some rings are broken or open but it's pretty corroded, those could just be damage.

Matthew
Dan, click on Stor and you can make it as big as you want. Matthew, I'm seeing a break on every one of those rings.
I got another one for you. This one says 3rd century Roman. Looks all riveted, and a couple of rings look like overlaps are going from right to left: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fragments_of_ancient_Roman_mail_armor_(_3rd_century_AD_).jpg
Yeah, Erik Schmid noted that Roman mail overlapped backwards from medieval mail. Drove him crazy reproducing it, of course, because he basically had to do everything left-handed!

Matthew
No Matthew, the opposite. I'm saying I think this mail is like medieval mail, not roman. Look at the center of the left section of mail. I think there's a single ring showing this.
I agree, Len. It appears to be right-hand helix, typical medieval.
Len Parker wrote:
Dan, click on Stor and you can make it as big as you want.

All riveted, right over left overlap. 15th C European seems a reasonable assessment.
Mart Shearer wrote:
I agree, Len. It appears to be right-hand helix, typical medieval.

Yep. If it is Roman then it is unique. Late Medieval European is more likely.
Len Parker wrote:
No Matthew, the opposite. I'm saying I think this mail is like medieval mail, not roman. Look at the center of the left section of mail. I think there's a single ring showing this.


Oh, sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying! No argument from me.

Matthew
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