18th Century Swords -- myArmoury.com

Brian Luscombe · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 8:05 am Post subject: 18th Century Swords

Hello folks

This is my first post so I can no longer be a lurker. I belong to an 18th C reenacting group and one of the most difficult items to acquire is a decent sword. Most of the swords available from sutlers are from India and are no better than unbalanced wall hangers. Is there any interest for some of the finer swordmakers displayed on this forum to delve into the 18th century and make some interesting hangers, spadroons and cavalry swords? In Don Troiani's book, Soldiers in America 1754-1865, he shows some beautiful swords from the French and Indian War and the Revolutionary War that are to die for. Just wondering and hoping.

Regards,

Brian Luscombe.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 11:30 am Post subject:

Vince Evans has done some fantastic hangers. Somebody posted a photo of one of them here not long ago.

At the extreme other end of the spectrum there are the usual Indian suspects, as you say. While I'd be less likely to want, say, a fine smallsword from them, a simple cutlass or hanger might not be too bad.
Here's one that I'm considering. It's a $95 Windlass replica of a Prussian infantry hanger that would have been appropriate from ca. 1700 up through the F/I War and possibly on up through the Rev. Design and specs look good compared to originals. Knucklebow may be slightly too large and APPEARS to lack the little protrusion at its upper end to fit into a corresponding hole in the pommel. Scabbard details are nice and typically German (the leather may extend a bit too far down over the brass finial, but that might be remedied). Since this replicates a mass-produced infantry weapon, indifferent quality of the replica wouldn't be too disconcerting to me as long as everything is solid and tight. It looks to be about as well-finished as the originals. Have you handled this particular weapon, by an chance? I figure if I get it and don't like the hilt I could attack it with with a Dremel tool, modify the gaurd and pommel, ditch the knucklebow and make a more upscale officer's hanger.

Brian Luscombe · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 12:06 pm Post subject: 18th Century Swords

I have handled both the real hangers and the wall hangers and found the wall hangers to be too blade heavy. Its amazing how light the original swords actually were (and easy to swing in close combat) as compared to the Indian swords. I know there are a few makers who make beautiful 18th C swords but I haven't seen any of their works discussed on this forum which tends to gravitate towards Medieval swords (not a bad thing in itself!).

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 12:12 pm Post subject:

Was the balance difference huge, or do you think it could be remedied by sharpening and/or slightly shortening the blade of the replica (say, by a half-inch)?

Brian Luscombe · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 12:22 pm Post subject: 18th Century Swords

Sean,

It was last March and now I couldn't say how much difference, except that I found it remarkable how much lighter the real hangers were. I have no idea how to lighten them. I think that the blades were thinner on the real ones and sharpened with the back edge having the thickness, giving it a nice cleaving ability and strength. I am no expert on these swords, its just what I felt when handling them. In my meagre sword collection, I have found that the original swords are always lighter and more flexible than the stuff being churned out. Its just so expensive to get the originals!!

Brian

Roger Hooper · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 12:23 pm Post subject:

There are a couple of places where you can get a decent smallsword - Arms and Armor - www.arms-n-armor.com

or www.darkwoodarmory.com.

I can't think of anyone who makes a first class production level hanger - your choice seems to be either custom or an inexpensive Windlass Steelcrafts product

Brian Luscombe · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 12:35 pm Post subject: 18th Century Swords

What I would really love to get is a spadroon. I have emailed Paul MacDonald from Edinburgh about his and they really look great. They cost 200 pounds and he said that they are exact replicas with weight, balance etc. The repro company Castle Keep is now selling two versions but the D shaped knuckle guard is wrong. They have put a stirrup shaped guard on instead of a D shaped one. The sword looks good, nice etched blade, nice ivory looking handle and proper pillow shaped pommel, just the wrong guard. I emailed Discriminating General and they are looking at doing a spadroon next year. Ebay is a killer to bid on swords, just when you think you have it, Bam!!! Gone!

Brian

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 1:39 pm Post subject:

FYI: Here's a nice auction site with many 18th c. pieces. Good photos to add to your collection in case you choose to go the custom route. I guess you've already found the photo albums here....

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 1:48 pm Post subject:

Here are a couple of 18th c. beauties! If you keep asking around I'm sure you'll find someone with the skill to replicate them. You could probably get both done for around $3,000. Start saving now! (actually, now that I take a closer look at the lower weapon, I'd bet that blade would cost you long green to have replicated.) Still, those HILTS...!

Brian Luscombe · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 5:05 pm Post subject: 18th Century Swords

Nice American sword making at its lowest!

Scott Bubar · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 6:28 pm Post subject:

They made do with what they had.

As you say, Brian, there's not much in the way of decent replicas from this period out there.

It's still largely an undiscovered niche.

Brian Luscombe · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 7:25 pm Post subject: 18th century swords

One of the nicest swordmakers I have seen on the net is Kyle Willyard of Old Dominion Forge. According to his site, he made swords for the movie "Pirates of the Caribbean". The swords on his sight look fantastic and the prices are very reasonable. He can also make items to order. I may go to him after I do some research on what I really want.

Brian

Brian Luscombe · Posted: Wed 29 Oct, 2003 7:31 pm Post subject: 18th century swords

I just perused the gallery and have to add Vince Evans to the list of great 18th Century sword makers. His hangers in the gallery are works of art.

Brian

Kevin S. McCarley · Posted: Thu 30 Oct, 2003 5:25 am Post subject:

Good post and replies. I've been looking for a good quality replica of a British 1796 Pattern Light Cavalry Sabre myself and haven't had much luck (I have a Windlass version and it's actually okay (especially for the price) but seems quite blade heavy).

I also have a pallasch made by ArmArt which I'm pleased with. You can find them via SFI (see the links page) though I'm not sure if they're currently taking orders.

Any suggestions (with URLs or links please) would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Roger Hooper · Posted: Thu 30 Oct, 2003 6:56 am Post subject: Armour Class Hanger

Armour Class of Scotland has a couple of hangers. They're 17th century designs, but one, model 17C7 shell and ring guard hanger, could pass as something seen in the next century.

www.armourclass.com

See this thread at SFI - http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s...ght=hanger - for some more pictures of this sword.

E.B. Erickson · Industry Professional

Hi Brian,
I note that you're looking for a spadroon (pillow pommel type), and that you may be thinking of spending 200 English pounds to get one. Have you considered buying an actual antique? For the 200 Pounds you could do it. The sword wouldn't be in pristine condition, and you'd have to make a scabbard, but on the other hand, you'd have the real McCoy!

Just a thought! --ElJay

Brian Luscombe · Posted: Fri 31 Oct, 2003 8:19 am Post subject: 18th century swords

Hi Eljay,

I have tried but cannot find one for that price. A place in UK wanted 380 quid. Ouch. On ebay I get bid out and where I live in Canada, north of Toronto, the sword market is non existent for Rev War. I would buy a real spadroon for 200 quid easy if I could find one.

Thanks

Brian

Lee O'Hagan · Posted: Sat 01 Nov, 2003 3:53 am Post subject:

Hi Brian,
Michael d long, in the uk may be worth emailing they have some fantastic stuff that goes in and out of the shop,
also very helpfull if they dont have what you want they can point you in the right direction,
the people there are also quite happy to let customers trade up,which in turn usually offers a better return for both parties,for those who are interested.
Lastly can you clarify which Castle Keep you mean as,
Castle Keep,
Rob Miller,
Isle of Skye,
Is all hand made to order and definately not wall hangers,
Robs site is down at the moment due to a change in servers,
best of luck in your search,
lee.

Lee O'Hagan · Posted: Sat 01 Nov, 2003 4:05 am Post subject: Forgot to add

Also Casque and Gauntlet,
as far as i know at last check they still did not have a site but do have email,
they sell mainly antique items, but also do refurb work on arms,armour and the like,
they will send out pics via snail mail,
they gave me loads of help on a few 1800's sabres i had picked up and also i know they have quite a few antique bare blades running all the way up to old damascus blades,which no longer have the hilt furniture,could also be an option to consider,
definately worth the time of a search on the net,
Happy

Brian Luscombe · Posted: Sat 01 Nov, 2003 7:37 am Post subject: 18th century swords

Hi Lee

Thank you for the great info. And to clarify, I do not mean Castle Keep in the UK. I have seen their website and I agree, they are not in the wall hanger category, their swords look great.

Brian.