myArmoury.com - Mounted Crossbowmen in the Italian Wars?

Posts: 189

Sun 04 Mar, 2018 12:48 pm

Lafayette C Curtis wrote:

The only specific evidence we have for the tactics of late-medieval mounted crossbowmen and handgunners -- in Philipp von Seldeneck's Kriegsbuch -- shows them loosing/firing only one volley at close range and then charging in alongside the lancers. No stupid suicidal rank-rotation shooting schemes.

Thanks! That's really helpful. Do you know if there's a translation or full version available online anywhere?

Also, is that the book that this illustration is from? I saw it floating around the internet but I wasn't sure what the source was.

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Carlos Valenzuela Cordero

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Posts: 17 Location: Barcelona

Tue 06 Mar, 2018 3:58 pm

Benjamin H. Abbott wrote:

As mentioned above, both accounts and regulations indicate that at least some French archers used their crossbows/bows during the Italian Wars into the early 16th century.

We have a muster of Charles VIII expedition in Italy from november 1494, and he had 5160 soldiers on horse: 400 crossbowmen on horse, besides 400 franc-archers. There were some men-at-arms or lances with two horses and one archer and one crosbowmen, so the sum could be greater than that.

Venetian army had 808 crossbowmen on horse, and they had also "schioppettieri a cavallo" - gunners on horse.

https://archive.org/details/laspedizionedic00sanugoog

I have searched for an early account of crossbowmen on horse fighting, but I have only found and example of 70 french men-at-arms and 50 french crossbowmen dismounting trying to take Monteleone in 1501 by assault on foot.
There is another example of Pierre de Bayart defeating 60 albanoys and 30 "gens de cheval arbalestriers", but they tell nothing how they fought.

By october 1511, venetian army had 228 crossbowmen on horse, and it's easy find these men in Italy until 1520's. In don Hugo de Moncada expedition to Los Gelves in 1520, spanish army had 670 men-at-arms and 450 "caballos ligeros", mostly jinetes, but stradiots too, and 60 "escopeteros" on horse and 150 crossbowmen on horse.

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Carlos Valenzuela Cordero

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Posts: 17 Location: Barcelona

Tue 06 Mar, 2018 4:04 pm

Henry O. wrote:

Lafayette C Curtis wrote:

The only specific evidence we have for the tactics of late-medieval mounted crossbowmen and handgunners -- in Philipp von Seldeneck's Kriegsbuch -- shows them loosing/firing only one volley at close range and then charging in alongside the lancers. No stupid suicidal rank-rotation shooting schemes.

Thanks! That's really helpful. Do you know if there's a translation or full version available online anywhere?

Also, is that the book that this illustration is from? I saw it floating around the internet but I wasn't sure what the source was.

This illustration you attached is from Philipp Mönch: Kriegsbuch
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit/cpg126

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Lafayette C Curtis

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Posts: 2,698 Location: Indonesia

Tue 03 Apr, 2018 1:33 am

Henry O. wrote:

Lafayette C Curtis wrote:

The only specific evidence we have for the tactics of late-medieval mounted crossbowmen and handgunners -- in Philipp von Seldeneck's Kriegsbuch -- shows them loosing/firing only one volley at close range and then charging in alongside the lancers. No stupid suicidal rank-rotation shooting schemes.

Thanks! That's really helpful. Do you know if there's a translation or full version available online anywhere?

Also, is that the book that this illustration is from? I saw it floating around the internet but I wasn't sure what the source was.

No. I haven't even found any full transcription of Seldeneck online -- just short excerpts at most. And this particular section of his book is not illustrated (unlike the "Bellifortis" section).

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