[Jonathan Hodge]

I know of no better place to posit a question of this kind. After years of historical interest, and recent months of research, I’m wanting to jump into the living history scene. I’ve already got a decent collection of weaponry across the ages, but want to begin piecing together a late Viking/Early Norman kit. Also of interest to me is the 13th century era of the military orders (particularly Hospitallers and Teutonic Knights). The mail of these kits have considerable overlap - and I’m trying to determine if I can use one set of mail (and maintain historical integrity) as I piece out further elements for both kits. My biggest hang up at this point is sleeves. It seems to me that much of the late Viking/early Norman mail was not full sleeved...but by the time we get to the military orders mail was most commonly full sleeved. With that in mind, is it historically plausible that full mail sleeves (round ring riveted) were present (if not common) in the late Viking/early Norman period?

[Dan Howard]

I think elbow-length sleeves will give you the most versatility regarding different time periods. You would want mail made from alternating rows of round riveted and solid links. There is nothing on the market that looks remotely like the links that were used so you'd need to make your own. If you aren't comfortable making your own riveted mail then IMO you can get a very good approximation of the appearance of this kind of mail by using alternating rows of butted and solid links. The end result looks a lot better than the mass-produced riveted links that are commercially available today.

Keep in mind that the commercially-available mail has links that are too large for most kinds of historical mail. The manufacturers of these links use the INSIDE diameter when telling us how large they are while archaeologists and museums use the OUTSIDE diameter. What the manufacturers call "6 mm mail" is really 10 mm or more.

[Jonathan Hodge]

Hey Dan. I was hoping you’d respond - thanks!. I will say that I would love to make my own mail, I even have some of the necessary tools already - but with two young boys at home, I’d be at work for years before I would have anything resembling a good hauberk and coif. Your bit about the measurement is something I had not come across so that is very helpful. A couple of follow up questions:

1. 16 gauge seems to be the modern size equivalent of “typical” period size (I hate to say that, but can’t come up with a better way). What are your thoughts on this?
2. Any suggestions or words of wisdom on how to make up for the lack of forearm mail when transitioning kits?

[Dan Howard]

1. Can't help you with gauges. I only work in metric.

2. Historically, forearm armour was rare. You don't need it for Living History.

[Mark Moore]

Keep in mind the weight factor also. The more dense the ring weave, the heavier it will be. I have a fairly loose-weave shirt that goes in at almost 20 pounds with a matching coif , which is about my back's pain threshold limit. .....McM

[Jonathan Hodge]

[Philip C. Ryan]

In the period you are referring to (appx. 11th century), you would only see short sleeved maille armour. Look to sources from the time period (carvings, art work), or directly after it (Bayeux Tapestry) to see examples.

[Mart Shearer]

You can even use a short sleeved byrnie in the mid-13th century, until you can afford to make or buy more mail. Portray a serjeant rather than a knight, and upgrade equipment as you go.
http://manuscriptminiatures.com/4138/18714/


Here's two examples of mid-13th century 3/4 open sleeves:

[Jonathan Hodge]

[Mart Shearer]

[Dan Howard]