| Author |
Message |
|
J. Douglas
|
 Posted: Wed 15 Mar, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Benjamin H. Abbott wrote: | Two-handed flails did see serious military use at times, most notably in the Hussite Wars in the 15th century.
Circa 1600 and on (perhaps earlier too), some Korean cavalry used two-handed flails.
As far as Norman maces go, a blow from horseback from a strong and skilled rider would presumably be enough to at least stun any opposing cavalry soldiers. Writing in the first half of the 15th century, Bertrandon de la Broquière thought Turkish cavalry maces would be able to knock a person unconscious through a helmet if the wielder were "swinging freely" (Galen Kline's 1988 English translation). Western European en-at-arms retained the mace until the pistol generally replaced it and transformed heavy cavalry overall.
On the other hand, some Norman maces may have been a bit light compared with 15th-century Turkish maces or 15th/16th-century European maces. I've seen a number of 16th-century maces that are 3+lbs according to museum records, while some earlier maces were only 1-2lbs. |
Wow! Very detailed Answear, thank you very much!
Yeah, I agree with everything you've said here, and thank you for the brief measurement estimate there, I haven't been able to find Norman mace weights anywhere yet, so that is very useful!
~JD (James)
|
|
  |
 |
|
Graham Shearlaw
|
| Posted: Wed 15 Mar, 2017 7:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Benjamin H. Abbott wrote: | Two-handed flails did see serious military use at times, most notably in the Hussite Wars in the 15th century.
|
I'm not saying the flails weren't used, as they clearly where.
But that there a emergency weapon, most of the images( admittedly its a tiny sample.) show them used by groups carrying pitchforks or some are not dressed in armour.
Mark Moore Thanks for the weight i can see just how of a brutal lump of metal that must be to swing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lafayette C Curtis
|
| Posted: Mon 17 Apr, 2017 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Nope. Nope. Nope. Two-handed flails were a very different beast from one-handed versions -- and they were actually quite common in Central Europe. They're everywhere in town militia inventories, for instance, and also in illustrations of the Hussite Wars. In fact, two-handed flails and halberds were arguably the iconic weapons of German town militias well into the sixteenth or even the seventeenth century. Note that townsmen, unlike farmers, wouldn't have had to thresh their own grain. Their flails were primarily fighting implements (though not always military since they were also extensively used in internal police duties).
|
|
|
|
|
Dan Howard
|
| Posted: Mon 17 Apr, 2017 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | | They're everywhere in town militia inventories,. |
What term is used to denote them in these inventories? How do we know that this term is describing what we know as a two-handed flail?
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gregg Sobocinski
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lafayette C Curtis
|
| Posted: Tue 18 Apr, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Dan Howard wrote: | | Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | | They're everywhere in town militia inventories,. |
What term is used to denote them in these inventories? How do we know that this term is describing what we know as a two-handed flail? |
I'll have to dig deep into my reading pile to find this because I read that a fair amount of time ago, so for the moment I'll just link to the HROARR gallery of artwork depicting flails in what could (mostly) be reasonably interpreted in martial contexts. Worth noting that the majority are two-handed: http://hroarr.com/articles-reviews/galleries/pflegeln-flails/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum
|
This is a standard topic