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Matthew Bunker




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep, 2016 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a more intact example of the Hornknap style of sword. The 'horn' part refers to the shape of the 'cap' , not the material.
As you can see from this example, the new find from Denmark is missing some of the grip and the lower guard:-



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Niels Just Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep, 2016 7:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Bunker wrote:
Here is a more intact example of the Hornknap style of sword. The 'horn' part refers to the shape of the 'cap' , not the material.
As you can see from this example, the new find from Denmark is missing some of the grip and the lower guard:-


Thanks Matthew!
Yeah it seems clear now that the Horn- prefix means the shape of the "knap" (pommel).
The confusion occurs in Danish, since Horn means Antler(s) - both material and shape.

Where is this sword from by the way?

It seems both the newly found Danish sword and the Vester-Lunde sword had lower parts of the hilt and crossguard that likely was made of organic materials. The disappeared lower parts are almost identical on both swords, whereas the example you gave are preserved and "all metal".
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Matthew Bunker




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PostPosted: Sat 03 Sep, 2016 7:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's on display at Moesgard but the find is from Northern Germany.
This miniature, amuletic version (from Borum Eshøj) is on display in the same case, as is another full size example with the same hilt fittings intact.



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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep, 2016 6:34 am    Post subject: New Nordic Sword Find - Iceland         Reply with quote

NIce sword found on Iceland. I guess now I have to take up goose hunting. Looks to be a nice piece and interesting hilt. Not sure if its missing an upper section to the pommel or not. Also maybe a sandwich construction but tough to tell from pics. Hope to see this after conservation.

BBC Story

Iceland Press

RT story most pics

Kirk's thread on hilt types to begin sorting out this piece. Happy

Have a great day
Craig
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Mark Lewis





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PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep, 2016 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: New Nordic Sword Find - Iceland         Reply with quote

Craig Johnson wrote:
Looks to be a nice piece and interesting hilt. Not sure if its missing an upper section to the pommel or not. Also maybe a sandwich construction but tough to tell from pics. Hope to see this after conservation

That's a great find! So few swords have been found in Iceland... It looks like the hilt may be in pretty good shape underneath the corrosion. The upturned tips on the upper hilt and downward tips on the lower makes me think this could be a type Q, meaning the hilt is complete as is. "Plain" hilts of type M and Q seem to have been especially common in Norway, so no surprise that Norwegian settlers might bring a few to Iceland.

Two examples from Norway for comparison:

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Niels Just Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Tue 06 Sep, 2016 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: New Nordic Sword Find - Iceland         Reply with quote

Mark Lewis wrote:
Craig Johnson wrote:
Looks to be a nice piece and interesting hilt. Not sure if its missing an upper section to the pommel or not. Also maybe a sandwich construction but tough to tell from pics. Hope to see this after conservation

That's a great find! So few swords have been found in Iceland... It looks like the hilt may be in pretty good shape underneath the corrosion. The upturned tips on the upper hilt and downward tips on the lower makes me think this could be a type Q, meaning the hilt is complete as is. "Plain" hilts of type M and Q seem to have been especially common in Norway, so no surprise that Norwegian settlers might bring a few to Iceland.


These types are very rare Denmark, so the origin of the sword-type seems very likely to be Norwegian.
Only one very corroded and fragmented sword from Herlufmagle might be a Q-type (mentioned by Petersen in 1919, page 134).

This find from Iceland is in very good condition from being a sword just lying on the ground!
It was either placed lying on top of a pagan grave or pressed into the earth to create a binding ritual (and then later downslope movement of earth - which happens with hills over time - caused it to be found more horisontally?).
The good condition could indicate it was pressed into the earth and then overgrown and first recently with downslope movement of earth got exposed to the atmosphere and luckily found soon thereafter before it rusted away.
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Niels Just Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Thu 29 Sep, 2016 3:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well-preserved Viking age "forked" arrowhead - from 900-1050 AD - found in melting Norwegian glacier.
Probably a guy who missed his shot after a reindeer and failed to relocate the arrow afterwards.
Source: http://sciencenordic.com/viking-arrowheads-em...n-glaciers
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Niels Just Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Nov, 2016 12:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

At the newly found viking ring fortress near Køge in the eastern part of Sjælland (now called Borgring) they have located an entire toolbox with contents.
This is a rare find (best so far was the Mestermyr chest from Gotland found in 1936) and was possibly deposited just before the ring fortress was attacked and burned down (likely when Svend Forkbeard and the people of Sjælland rebelled against his father King Harald Bluetooth as the most famous ringfortress Trelleborg near Slagelse in the western part of Sjælland also have strong indications of being destroyed by a successful attack).
It is possible though that is was deposited after the attack by someone doing some work in the fortress.

Conservation needs to be done to really see what these lumps of iron really are, but so far the guess are they are wood-carving instruments. There are 14 tools in the box.

English: http://sciencenordic.com/archaeologists-discover-viking-toolbox
Danish: http://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/se-vaerkto...ive-aabnet
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jan, 2017 7:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a better photo of the bronze sword found in that Pylos grave, dating to around 1500 BC. Hilt is gold plated.


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Craig Johnson
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PostPosted: Thu 16 Feb, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Exceptional Bronze Age Find         Reply with quote

Here are some really spectacular items found in Scotland. Sword, with scabbard bits, Spear head with gold all Bronze age find in larger complex being excavated for Futball Fields. Really great things!!

Scottish Bronze Age Sword and more

BBC story

The Sun Story

Hmm is this the same find?? Sept 16 Find

Best
Craig

edited to add links
edited again to add possible dup from Sept16


Last edited by Craig Johnson on Thu 16 Feb, 2017 12:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Feb, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm drawing up a blank page. Maybe it's my 'puter. WTF?! Might want to check your link, though. Happy ....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Feb, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oops, there it is! My bad. Happy ...McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Thu 16 Feb, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wow....that is tooo cool. Big Grin Must have belonged to a chieftain, or a really famous(in his-or her Question time) warrior. That sword and spear ....woof!..........McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Niels Just Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Mon 20 Feb, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Re: Exceptional Bronze Age Find         Reply with quote

Craig Johnson wrote:
Here are some really spectacular items found in Scotland. Sword, with scabbard bits, Spear head with gold all Bronze age find in larger complex being excavated for Futball Fields. Really great things!!

Scottish Bronze Age Sword and more

BBC story

The Sun Story

Hmm is this the same find?? Sept 16 Find

Best
Craig

edited to add links
edited again to add possible dup from Sept16


It does look like the same find. The second recent reports are likely after conservation (that do take some time).
So an "international" flange-hilted sword sword with sheath remains, paired with a gold inlayed spear. That is really a man of great importance!
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Niels Just Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Wed 22 Feb, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Late viking age grave from Denmark with sword was re-discovered in 2009 near Næsby in Himmerland, Northern Jutland.
(short excavation made in 1951 - but this re-discovery has brought new speculation and discoveries to light).
So this is a new hypothesis brought forward last month about the identity of the guy buried with the sword:

The quality of the sword shows the wearer was a prominent man and it can now be determined that a structure (chapel, church?) was build over the grave!

Source: http://nyheder.tv2.dk/lokalt/2017-01-23-arkae...lig-fundet

A metal-analyses shows that the blade is of central european iron and it has an "in Nomini Dei" inscription.
The sword should also contain copper and silver
(not specified but probably either on the pommel or the inscription?).

Danish interview with Bjarne Henning Nielsen shows the sword just after 0.10 & 1.40 min:
Source: http://www.tv2nord.dk/artikel/rester-af-valde...t-i-naesby

Other sources:
(english): http://cphpost.dk/news/danish-archaeologist-m...chief.html
(spanish): http://www.gciencia.com/historias-gc/atopan-a...u-galicia/

It is the opinion of the excavator that these might be the grave of Jarl (Earl) Ulf "galicienfarer" = "Galicia-traveller", who went on Crusades in Spain (or viking attacks, whatever the perspective is) from 1028-1048, who came from this area of Jutland.

[Himmerland was called in older Danish "Himbreland" - likely the site of origin for the Cimbri mentioned by Roman writers as Germanic has the sound change of k- -> h- which doesn't happen in Latin].

Jarl Ulf "Galicia-traveller" was the father of Jarl Thrugot Ulfsen "fagerskind" = "beautiful-skin", who became the "named" ancestor of the powerful Thrugot-family, which gave Denmark its two first arch-bishops of Lund (Asser & Eskild). He was the hird-leader of Svend Estridsen (King 1047-1076)

Thrugot Ulfsen "fagerskind" was the mother of Bodil Thrugotsdatter, who was married to Danish King Erik Ejegod (she died on pilgrimage in Jerusalem in 1103). Their children were Knud Lavard - father of Valdemar the Great (King 1137-1182) - Harald Kesja and Erik Emune (King 1134-1137)

This is off course still speculation, but it is likely that the grave was a prominent person and so far Jarl Ulf "galicia-traveller" fits (especially since a chapel was build over the grave). It has to be mentioned that the area contains another 24 graves from the viking age possibly from the time of Harald Bluetooth.


Last edited by Niels Just Rasmussen on Thu 23 Feb, 2017 8:28 am; edited 2 times in total
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Mark Lewis





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PostPosted: Thu 23 Feb, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Niels,
Very interesting find, thanks for sharing! I hope more information will eventually be forthcoming...

The pommel seems to be your basic tea-cozy shape, Petersen's type X? Difficult to tell from the camera angle and physical condition... It would be pretty unusual (but not unique) for there to be any copper/silver embellishments on this type of pommel.

If the inscription is literally "in nomine Dei" and not the similar (and common) "in nomine Domini", then this also seems noteworthy. Actually, I can only think of one example of a sword where "Dei" (genitive form of "Deus"/God) is used - in an inscription of "homo Dei" on the reverse of an Ingelrii sword. In this time frame, and this type of inscription, and paired with this type of pommel, an iron-inlaid inscription would be typical I think - so again, an unusual feature if it is the inscription that is inlaid in copper/silver.

So either way, I think there are questions that remain to be answered! Question


Last edited by Mark Lewis on Thu 23 Feb, 2017 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Niels Just Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Thu 23 Feb, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Lewis wrote:
Hi Niels,
Very interesting find, thanks for sharing! I hope more information will eventually be forthcoming...

The pommel seems to be your basic tea-cozy shape, Petersen's type X? Difficult to tell from the camera angle and physical condition... It would be pretty unusual (but not unique) for there to be any copper/silver embellishments on this type of pommel.

If the inscription is literally "in nomine Dei" and not the similar (and common) "in nomine Domini", then this also seems noteworthy. Actually, I can only think of one example of a sword where "Dei" (genitive form of "Deus"/God) is used - in an inscription of "homo Dei" on the obverse of an Ingelrii sword. In this time frame, and this type of inscription, and paired with this type of pommel, an iron-inlaid inscription would be typical I think - so again, an unusual feature if it is the inscription that is inlaid in copper/silver.

So either way, I think there are questions that remain to be answered! Question


Hi Mark.
Yeah it is a bit hard with shadows to see the exact form of the pommel.
After reading through the material it seems that the inscription is only visible with x-rays and it possibly reads "in nomine D", so it could be both "D(omini) or "D(ei).
But since no papers are published from the finds yet, we have to wait for an in-detailed report. So i can't find exact information whether the copper and silver in from the blade inscription or the pommel; but when the metallurgic examination is mentioned in respect to the blade I would guess it is the blade inscription.

EDIT: Found an image of the inscription

Source: http://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/har-vi-fun...poldefar-0

NB: the possible "N" "NM" D(?) ???+ comes when you reverse the reading (rotate blade 180 degress).
But the journalist doesn't give the source for this image..........

During the re-discovery of the grave site a piece of the sword (with sheath material attached to it) was found which had been missed at the short 1951 excavation. Should give it a total length of 92,5 cm.

Source: https://nordjyske.dk/nyheder/vikinge-svaerdet-der-voksede/dd1f3232-d6f6-4e46-afd5-3ec950ccd4fd/112/1513

The grave has a square structure erected over it - probably a small wooden viking style church - and the "ryttergrav" itself is pretty large (100 square meters).

In one of the others graves, they found a grave with an axe and long dagger:
Source (1.35 min): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9gV_CYCGIc


Last edited by Niels Just Rasmussen on Thu 23 Feb, 2017 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mark Moore




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PostPosted: Thu 23 Feb, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I will be keeping an eye on this. I would be greatly interested in what the sheath material is composed of on the fragment that was found! Wink .....McM
''Life is like a box of chocolates...'' --- F. Gump
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Niels Just Rasmussen




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PostPosted: Thu 23 Feb, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
I will be keeping an eye on this. I would be greatly interested in what the sheath material is composed of on the fragment that was found! Wink .....McM

I'll will update when I get some more info.

Anne Pedersen has the following info on the sword in "Dead Warriors in living memory" (2014).
It is on plate 25.1 in book 2 (so definitely the same sword) and the inscription is giving in less detail in book 1 page 82 (here only the last "WN N" or" N NM" if read reverse are clear). She speculates it is either and Ingel-group sword or +INNOMINED type sword.
Anne Pedersen gives it as a Pedersen type X.

Without the recently found fragment the "stats" are the following:
Preserved length: 84,5 cm
Blade length. 70,0 cm
Width at lower guard: 5,5 cm.

The now total length of 92,5 cm is according to this article:
Source: http://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/rester-fra...ske-fundet


Also found in the grave in 1951 were two fairly well preserved stirrups of the Farsø-type, so it clearly qualifies as a "ryttergrav".
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Mark Lewis





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PostPosted: Thu 23 Feb, 2017 8:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for tracking down these details and references! Big Grin

If that illustration accurately represents the appearance of the inscription, it seems to require a fair bit of imagination to get any meaning from it, unfortunately... Also it does make me think that the inscription is iron-inlaid after all, since it specifically shows how the letters are formed of broad strips of metal, which I don't you find with precious metal inlays.
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