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Pedro Paulo Gaião
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 Posted: Sat 11 Feb, 2017 2:32 pm Post subject: "Flag-Crest"? |
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I found this image in the internet with this kind of flag attached to the helmet as if was some kind of crest. I'm sure this is historical, since I found that in a modern drawing about burgundian gendarmes. I would like to ask a few questions:
What is the name of this object? When could it have arisen in 15th century and where exactly it had some popularity? Given by the lack of representations, I believe it would something very local
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Mart Shearer
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Lafayette C Curtis
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| Posted: Mon 17 Apr, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: Re: "Flag-Crest"? |
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| Pedro Paulo Gaião wrote: | | I'm sure this is historical, since I found that in a modern drawing about burgundian gendarmes. |
Not exactly the way I'd recommend to decide whether something is historical or not. Even if something is found everywhere in high-quality modern illustrations, that doesn't mean it's historical unless we can actually find a historical textual or pictorial source for it (or a corresponding archaeological artifact). Fortunately Mart has that sorted.
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Pedro Paulo Gaião
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| Posted: Thu 25 May, 2017 9:24 am Post subject: Re: "Flag-Crest"? |
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| Lafayette C Curtis wrote: | | Pedro Paulo Gaião wrote: | | I'm sure this is al, since I found that in a modern drawing about burgundian gendarmes. |
Not exactly the way I'd recommend to decide whether something is al or not. Even if something is found everywhere in high-quality modern illustrations, that doesn't mean it's al unless we can actually find a al textual or pictorial source for it (or a corresponding archaeological artifact). Fortunately Mart has that sorted. |
I know it isn't the best way to decide, but I came across such elements in several occasions, and the photo above is from a famous curator specialized in (he is reenacting in the case).
In any case, yesterday I could find more substancial information about it in Heath's book and from an Osprey's book made by Nicholas Michael. The latter one comments about an 1473's Ordinance:
"D1 : A reconstruction oft he sallet of a chef d'escadre in accordance with the St. Maximin Ordinance, 1473. The painting on this flag would have matched that on the company banner, and the simbols on it show the bearer to be the second squadron attached to the third company
Source: Armies of Burgundy 1367 - 1477. p. 35.
In Heath's Armies of Middle Ages vol. 1 (p. 145), he comments about an company pennoncel:
About 120a:
The thing is, when he's talking about how common such crest-flags were with officers and commanders of this time (1480's), I don't know if he's talking about french ones or western european ones, in a more broader sense
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