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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sebastian Goriesky wrote:
New question. Scrounging about the internet for maille rings ('cause a finished hauberk is beyond my price range) I've found both flat cross section rings and round cross section rings. As both are dome rivets, is there one type that is more historically accurate for the Viking Age, or is it simply a fabrication created by two different modern production techniques.


If you can scrounge your pennies together it is worth it to buy a finished shirt of maile. I do not even like doing repairs on maile let alone making a full shirt. Setting rivets is tedious beyond my ability to describe in mere words.


Sarcastic solution of the day: Sell plasma, getting stabbed with needles, having your life blood drained away, and laying on a cold plastic table for an hour times 20 is less painful and invasive.

David L Smith
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Philip Dyer





Joined: 25 Jul 2013

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Why would the elite guard of one of the wealthiest Empires of the period stick with just wearing one type of armor? Wouldn't they want to wear the richest clothes, finest made weapons , most highest quality , bleeding edge of armor trends to show there their extremely high status?
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Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug, 2016 3:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bleeding edge armour is mail. At the time It was the most desirable, expensive, and versatile amour available. Often it was covered with expensive textiles to conform to the latest fashions. Here is a depiction of Mercurios with his collar turned over to show the mail lining.


Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Philip Dyer





Joined: 25 Jul 2013

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug, 2016 4:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Bleeding edge armour is mail. At the time It was the most desirable, expensive, and versatile amour available. Often it was covered with expensive textiles to conform to the latest fashions. Here is a depiction of Mercurios with his collar turned over to show the mail lining.


But I thought the guard lasted (abet with different ethnics change)as long as the Byzantine empire. English and Frankish lords had mail shirts. We have later reference of kings wearing armor that wouldn't be commonly seen among lower nobility decades later. What a guardsmen mail any more different, expensive more than a Huscarl's mail shirt? Even though I confess, I can't really judge in the picture where the mail stops and the rest in just fancy clothing.
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David Lewis Smith




Location: NC
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug, 2016 4:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="Dan Howard"]Bleeding edge armour is mail. At the time It was the most desirable, expensive, and versatile amour available. Often it was covered with expensive textiles to conform to the latest fashions. Here is a depiction of Mercurios with his collar turned over to show the mail lining.

What time period was this depiction done? I am very curious about the saber like sword. Any other information about if early period, early period curved swords would be appreciated

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William P




Location: Sydney, Australia
Joined: 11 Jul 2010

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PostPosted: Wed 17 Aug, 2016 7:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="David Lewis Smith"]
Dan Howard wrote:
Bleeding edge armour is mail. At the time It was the most desirable, expensive, and versatile amour available. Often it was covered with expensive textiles to conform to the latest fashions. Here is a depiction of Mercurios with his collar turned over to show the mail lining.

What time period was this depiction done? I am very curious about the saber like sword. Any other information about if early period, early period curved swords would be appreciated


i might be able to help you there

in the empire during the 10th-11th c was actually almost straight they called it a paramerion, im sure troops from nomadd regions used the slightly curved sabres of the time (an early medieval sabres curve was pretty subtle at times, kind of like the curve of a katana as opposed to the curve of a shamshir.

they seem to have been introduced and developed by peoples from asia, like the straight single edged swords from the avars in the 6th century, by the 9th we start seeing curves like your typical hungarian magyar sabre

https://au.pinterest.com/peterraftos/khazar/ this pinterest page of black sea kkhazar nomad finds should give tyou an idea of the sabres used in the early medieval era up until. the 13th century


https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/q84/s960x960/12885993_10154112318579884_3087373648876920704_o.jpg by comparison, this one is thought to match what we know (which isnt much) about the byzatine paramerion

others think it's merely a curved single edged blade on a normal straightsword hilt as opposed to having a canted sabre grip

the evidence is kind of skant but some ivory carvings of saints do hint as sword that are sabrelike but kind of straighter


as for the mercurio, it's dated to 1295, we also have reason to think that this stuff is pretty heavily stylised as well in his armour, the sabre is likely correct, mostly.
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