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Guillaume Vauthier




Location: France
Joined: 16 Jun 2016

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject: German falchion?         Reply with quote

Hi to all,
First topic sent, hope it will not be the last Happy

Earlier this week I found this falchion, looking on a russian website:

Picture 1
Picture 2
Picture 3
Picture 4
Picture 5
Picture 6
Picture 7
Picture 8

Unfortunately the information is very scarce, it is claimed to be of german origin and dated from the end of 15th century. It seems to have inscriptions on blade and crossguard.

Did someone see it before? What do you guys think?
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JG Elmslie
Industry Professional



Location: Scotland
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 251

PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've not seen that one before, thankyou.

If you dont mind, do you have a link to the website you found it, so I can start the long job of tracing it back through the website, to wherever it was found/wherever it is kept, for my research work?

What I will say is, I'm very sceptical its 15th C in date. Taking it at face value, I would say its mid-14th, assuming its original.

there's a few funny bits I'm cautious of though, so will hold out on any excitement till then....
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Guillaume Vauthier




Location: France
Joined: 16 Jun 2016

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Thu 16 Jun, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually it's a commercial website (and this seems to be for sale right now), I don't know if it is allowed to put a link here. But I'll give you the url by pm. Happy
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Tom Wolfe




Location: East Anglia, England
Joined: 10 Aug 2015

Posts: 77

PostPosted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 8:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JG Elmslie wrote:
I've not seen that one before, thankyou.

If you dont mind, do you have a link to the website you found it, so I can start the long job of tracing it back through the website, to wherever it was found/wherever it is kept, for my research work?

What I will say is, I'm very sceptical its 15th C in date. Taking it at face value, I would say its mid-14th, assuming its original.

there's a few funny bits I'm cautious of though, so will hold out on any excitement till then....


If you click on the photo links it takes you to the dealer website- just delete everything in the search bar line after ".ru"

Collector of original 16th-17th century European arms and armour. Would like to collect earlier, but budget doesn't allow- yet!
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Mark Griffin




Location: The Welsh Marches, in the hills above Newtown, Powys.
Joined: 28 Dec 2006

Posts: 801

PostPosted: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 10:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd def go with James 14th cent date, its a nice find, thanks Guillaume
Currently working on projects ranging from Elizabethan pageants to a WW1 Tank, Victorian fairgrounds 1066 events and more. Oh and we joust loads!.. We run over 250 events for English Heritage each year plus many others for Historic Royal Palaces, Historic Scotland, the National Trust and more. If you live in the UK and are interested in working for us just drop us a line with a cv.
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Cornelis Tromp




Location: Holland
Joined: 03 Jan 2010

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2016 9:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I do not believe that this is an original sword.
reason, the series of letters BOAC? on he cross and the angel wings in the blade are very much inspired on a sword in the Glasgow Museum, ROMS X.12
f/m the guard is an unusual place for an inscription

best,
jasper



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JG Elmslie
Industry Professional



Location: Scotland
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Reading list: 28 books

Posts: 251

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2016 11:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm inclined to agree with Cornelis Tromp on the very real possibility that its faked - that cross is one of the "funny bits" I mentioned. But conversely, I'm not 100% convinced that it actually is an inscription on the cross. The photos, after all, are pretty abysmal, and tiny.
(and how can anyone get the white balance THAT far off in a photograph, I have no idea!)

I'm trying to arrange with the antiques dealer to get further information from them (and decent resolution photography, to work out if it really is text, or just a trick of the light) , but its been extremely slow going - their English is a bit lacking, and I'm having to pull favours off old university friends who are native speakers to get more information translated in the discussions.. Pretty much the only new information I have on it is a purported origin in Austria, and found in 2000. Which as a provenance, is about as convincing as my cat's "I've not be fed in years" expression...

If it is original, I very much doubt the 15th C. date its given - its an earlier style, in that regard, and closer to the mid-14th, I'd say. If it is an inlaid or engraved cross, that's a really big warning light against authenticity. To be honest, the bigger flashing light there is the engraving that appears to be on the blade - that sort of square boxy panel looks rather out of place for its date - and I'd just like to thank Cornelis, because it was bugging me where I'd seen that shape before, and it is glasgow museums' A.1987.31 - and if it is from there, well, an engraving style that's mid-12th century, on a mid-14th century falchion type might as well say "made in 2000".

Again, something I'm trying to get clearer reference pics of, in high-resolution. I'm not entirely struck by the pommel either. Its sort of an H1, but without any of the edge bevels I'd expect. Feels out of place.

One detail I'd be cautious of. All in combination is a lot of problems.

If I ever get more detail, I'll let people know here.
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Guillaume Vauthier




Location: France
Joined: 16 Jun 2016

Posts: 155

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2016 11:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting element! This engraving seemed weird to me, as I never saw something alike on a 14th century falchion or sword. Is there a picture of the Glasgow ROMS X.12 somewhere?
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Cornelis Tromp




Location: Holland
Joined: 03 Jan 2010

Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sun 31 Jul, 2016 11:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JG Elmslie wrote:
I'm not 100% convinced that it actually is an inscription on the cross. .


thanks, please see attached Collage.

best,
jasper



 Attachment: 78.28 KB
1-boac x.jpg


 Attachment: 115.73 KB
1-boac x1.jpg

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