[Kirk K.]

In my reading up on pole arms I found an image of a Scot in traditional garb holding a Lochaber axe on the end of a pole that had to be at least 20' long. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find the image again.

This puzzled me. I though about the characteristics such a weapon would have. Obviously a pole that long could not be extremely rigid. A heavy weight on the end of a long, springy pole tends to oscillate around. Since that is about impossible to stop, the wielder would have to go with the natural tendencies of the weapon and use them to his advantage.

I first thought the guy might reach out from the front ranks, sweeping the blade back and forth to keep attacking infantry at bay. That seemed unlikely on reflection as the sweep movement would be too slow and uncontrollable to achieve that goal effectively. Then I thought it might be used to attack cavalry from behind the pike wall. But thinking about it, the weapon lacks the precision and speed to attack a such fleeting, mobile target as a cavalryman.

I finally hit upon a hypothesis that may be viable. I know the Scottish clans used pikes in their internecine battles. The pikes were ~15'-18' long. The pike wall and the 'push of the pike' was the battlefield environment of the time. The pikemen obviously had to maintain focus on what they were doing to remain effective. Now image a guy with a Lochaber axe on the end of a pole slightly longer than the enemy's pikes. He stands behind your front ranks of pikes, holding his axe blade over the heads of the enemy pikemen. Then he uses the natural springiness of the long pole to start the axe blade oscillating up and down. Once he has a good chopping cycle established he starts fanning the oscillating chopping blade back and forth across the ranks of enemy pikemen. I think that a huge axe blade slamming down from above repeatedly across the ranks would disturb the concentration of any soldier, especially when they could not move because they were braced against the push of enemy pikes.

So did such a variant of the Lochaber axe actually exist, and if so how accurate are my guesses about how it was used?

[Mikko Kuusirati]

[Kirk K.]

[Mikko Kuusirati]

Couldn't really say without seeing the picture.

But, as a general thing, I'd assume it was used like any other long polearm of its sort. Certainly not utilizing cartoon physics.

[Kirk K.]

A heavy weight oscillating at the end of a springy pole is "cartoon physics". Umm, okay, fine. Good luck with that.

*rolls eyes and moves on*

[Dan Howard]

Newton's Third Law would probably preclude this sort of thing in the real world. The back end would likely need to be held by something a lot stronger and heavier than a human.

[Mikko Kuusirati]

[Kirk K.]

In the drawing I saw (still looking for it) you could see a pronounced droop over the length of the pole. If the mere weight of the blade was enough to cause so much droop, the pole had to be somewhat springy.

Anyways, I am just trying to find some credible idea of how such a weapon would work and be deployed. I am open to suggestions.

On a personal note, your condescending snark does you no favors.

[Neal Matheson]

Hi Kirk, it would be useful if you could find the image, as other have said I think it is quite unlikely.I haven't seen any lochaber axes on long shafts in museums etc but accepted that pole weapons are often re-hafted. Contemporary images show axes on 5'-6' poles and the lone lochaber axe wielding highlander from the Penicuik sketches has a longer shaft while the McBane image shows a fairly short weapon. Nothing pike sized though.
I think other posters were being light hearted rather than snarky.

[Mikko Kuusirati]

[Gabriele Becattini]

the pike is not a traditional weapons found in highland context,

never heard about "push of pikes" in clan warfare,

for sure it was used by scottish regular soldiers when serving in formal battle arrays, like every other soldiers of the pike and shotte era,

spears and half pikes are mentioned frequently, but we are talking of a completely different use in the battlefield


the lochaber axe is by all intents and purposes a sort of halberd and it is impoossible that it was mounted on such a long pole,

[Gregg Sobocinski]

Try swinging a 20' pole without anything on the end, and you'll quickly decide that the picture you saw was inaccurate. Perhaps it was taken from fantasy fiction cover art?

[Kirk K.]

[Kirk K.]

[Philip Dyer]

Well, the modern renderer could of just screwed up the drawing. Do you have the book and could take a photo of the picture in question and post it here?

[Gregg Sobocinski]

Kirk K. wrote:

Gregg Sobocinski wrote: Try swinging a 20' pole without anything on the end, and you'll quickly decide that the picture you saw was inaccurate. Perhaps it was taken from fantasy fiction cover art? Let me further explain what I saw. The context was a page about Medieval art. An artist was talking about his modern rendering of a historical drawing. The historical drawing was faded and not that easy to make out. Upon reflection, the sash the guy was wearing may in fact have been a sling to help bear the weight of weapon. I have seen that before with pikes. The bottom line is, I would have completely dismissed the whole thing from the start were it not for the historical drawing. That has become a bit of a brainworm for me. It could be an ancient fantasy drawing I suppose, but I want to make sure.

[size=12] Your response is well described. I sincerely hope that you or a member of this forum can find this intriguing image.[/size]

[Kirk K.]

[Neal Matheson]

HI Kirk, it seems we are stuck until we can find the image.

[Kirk K.]