[Michael Parker]

Hi Everybody!

Can anyone offer experience or sources about Vietnamese edged weapons that might turn up as relics or souvenirs of the Vietnam War? I am working on a collaborative project about Votive Objects for my masters' degree, and some of the artifacts we are writing about come from the Vietnam Veterans Memorial collection, which collects and stores all objects deposited at the wall since its dedication. One object, VIVE 8987, is the blade, hilt, and scabbard of a sword, left at panel 40E on March 21, 1993. It was accompanied by a note (VIVE 8988) inscribed:

"In memory of Sgt. William J. Thornhill N.Y. Given to him by Montagnard Chieftain 1968".

From my professor, I have this much physical information about the weapon:

"Parts include:

(A) Blade of sword. Sharp edge is curved like a machete or scimitar. Surface is rusted. Hilt has come off, tang is visible.
(B) Hilt of sword. Made of bronze or copper (greenish metal). Hilt has numerous bands around its diameter. End is pointed. Inside is filled with wood, with a slot for tang to fit in.
(C) Sheath, made of two rectangular slats of wood bound together with thin strips of pliable wood. String tied around sheath at hilt end. Wood is split at other end."

Apart from this, there is no other research or context whatsoever.

What do we have here? What kind of sources can I look to for information about Montagnard weaponry, or interactions between the Montagnard and U.S. soldiers? We have no guarantee of its provenance except the note, and for all I know it's something other than what it purports to be, but it's the only lead I've got.

Also, is there anyone in the U.S. government, Armed Forces, Veterans groups, Museums, or Historical Societies whom I can call to ask for information about Sgt. William J. Thornhill (KIA 02/18/1968), such as where he came from or where he served? I don't know whether that information is readily available to civilians, and I'm afraid of overstepping my bounds, but I was thinking how critical it would be to put the object in some kind of context. My current location is New York City.

[Mart Shearer]

http://www.vvmf.org/Wall-of-Faces/51953/WILLIAM-J-THORNHILL

[Travis Canaday]

This is a form of Dha. That's a Burmese word used to describe a variety of machete/swords found throughout Indochina. They all have the characteristic long round hilts.

The Montagnard tribes aka Degar primarily fought with the Special Forces during the war. They were called "Yards" by the Americans. Before we gave them rifles, they used crossbows.

Cool old sword.

[Timo Nieminen]

[Michael Parker]

Thank you everybody, I am so glad this information is available. Your links are great!

[Sean Flynt]

Could be MACV Team 67 at Song Be: https://macvteams.org/team-67/

[Sean Flynt]

Yes on MACV, but not necessarily at Song Be, I guess. Short tour.

[Michael Parker]

Thank you all, especially Sean for referring me to the data on the wall. I'm curious, though. Is there any way to determine whether a given soldier was a draftee, or a volunteer? I have read that a smaller proportion of veterans were draftees than popular culture tends to represent. It would be significant for my project.

Now, I know almost nothing about military rank or specialty, so the main problem is that I hardly know what any of those abbreviations mean:

11B4H: Infantryman (Instructor)

BDQ ADV TEAM TD 31, ADV TEAM 94, HQ, MACV ADVISORS, MACV

What does BDQ stand for? Is ADV TEAM Advisor team? And what does TD stand for? Does any of this tell us what team he was part of? Does the designation MACV Advisors and Infantryman (Instructor) mean that he was responsible for training Montagnard recruits in the CIDG program? I'm a little confused because I was under the impression that the U.S. Army Special Forces was mainly responsible for the Civilian Irregular Defense Group Program under which the Montagnard were trained, and I don't see SF or Special Forces on Thornhill's MOS or Unit lines. Did MACV Advisor teams work with Montagnard as well as ARVN etc.?

[Travis Canaday]

Apparently BDQ stands for Biệt Động Quân (Biet Dong Quan) which were the ARVN Rangers. It looks like Thornhill was in BDQ advisory team 31. I couldn't figure out the TD. It seems to be an acronym for many things. Possibly "temporary duty" or "tactical director"? Or it could mean Tiểu đoàn which means battalion. That would mean he worked with the 31st battalion. There seems to be a lot of old ARVN patches out there with TD on them for their battalions. So the abbreviation was used at the time.

I hope that helps. Thank god for google!

[Travis Canaday]

Also...

11B4H means Light weapons and marksmanship instructor

11B stands for infantry weapons
4 stands for NCO
and H denotes instructor qualified

If Thornhill was working with ARVN Rangers, I doubt he worked with the Montagnards directly. The Vietnamese and Yards hated each other (probably many still do). I think the Americans tried to keep them separated. That being said, there were probably plenty around he could have befriended.

In regards to the Montagnard and Vietnamese hatred for each other; I remember reading a story about a SF guy having to pull his gun on a South Vietnamese doctor to force him to treat his wounded Yard. The racism was very bad.

[Sean Flynt]

I can't tell if his service length was six years or six months, but I assume it was the former. Six years sounds a lot more plausible for a SF sergeant (if he was SF,) and that would have had him enlisting or being drafted at about 19 (draft was 18.5 and older). That seems to add up a lot better than being an NCO and instructor after 6 months of service.

[Travis Canaday]

Thornhill's tour began in 11/03/1967 and he was killed 2/18/1968. So it looks like he was in country for only three and half months (at least on the tour in which he was killed). I don't think he was Special Forces, but he did work for MACV.

[Michael Parker]

Thank you, Sean and Travis. The BDQ information is particularly helpful.