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D. Nogueira
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 42
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 Posted: Wed 01 Jul, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: About reinforced tips in medieval swords |
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I was wondering, how common was the use of a reinforced tip (Visibly thicker) in very acutely-pointed medieval swords, for instance in Type XV's.
Considering real surviving examples of this type... where the tip is not missing or destroyed by corrosion or whatever reason...
Do some of them have reinforced tips? Or (Most/Few/All) of them?
And a final question... is it possible for a Type XVIII sword with diamond section to have such a reinforced tip, or this feature is only typical of earlier Type XV swords?
Thank you very much!
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Jared Smith
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| Posted: Wed 01 Jul, 2015 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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It is somewhat difficult to explain, but on some diamond shaped swords that have narrow points the thickness taper (distal) is fairly minimal after about half way down the blade. Most of the taper on my Munich for example is just profile taper after about half way down the blade. Consequently the tip is shaped rather like a large awl. It is not particularly week despite its appearance in profile.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Hector A.
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| Posted: Wed 01 Jul, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: About reinforced tips in medieval swords |
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| D. Nogueira wrote: | I was wondering, how common was the use of a reinforced tip (Visibly thicker) in very acutely-pointed medieval swords, for instance in Type XV's.
Considering real surviving examples of this type... where the tip is not missing or destroyed by corrosion or whatever reason...
Do some of them have reinforced tips? Or (Most/Few/All) of them?
And a final question... is it possible for a Type XVIII sword with diamond section to have such a reinforced tip, or this feature is only typical of earlier Type XV swords?
Thank you very much! |
No such thing as a historical re-enforced tip like you describe them (a swelling) on swords, like Jared said swords with strong points are the ones with minimal taper in thickness along the blade.
I have had an Albion Cluny with a swollen tip and it moved terribly despite the low weight, it is my understanding that Albion started to do this to the tips when people complained there tips where getting damaged to easily, this probably solved the problem but it defeats the purpose of tapering a blade, as the nose heaviness complete puts off the handling of the sword.
Its not to say some things historically didn't have swellings, like certain falchion's, but the ones i'm referring to are not exactly swords anymore... and it must handle like a stubborn mule.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CupEzAZ4UVk
15 minutes you see an example.
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Vasilly T
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| Posted: Thu 02 Jul, 2015 9:21 am Post subject: Re: About reinforced tips in medieval swords |
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| Hector A. wrote: |
I have had an Albion Cluny with a swollen tip and it moved terribly despite the low weight, it is my understanding that Albion started to do this to the tips when people complained there tips where getting damaged to easily, this probably solved the problem but it defeats the purpose of tapering a blade, as the nose heaviness complete puts off the handling of the sword.
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Wow, I always thought that Museum line is supposed to accurately repeat the museum originals. That sounds disappointing. Now I'll think twice before getting a sword from Albion.
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Craig Johnson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 02 Jul, 2015 10:15 am Post subject: Blade crosssections |
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The term "reinforced tip" is obviously a modern way to describe what folks are seeing in these blades. It implies some extra material is added or moved to such a location. This would not be the way a maker in period would approach making such a piece or how one would go about creating a blade in period. Today we have a tendency to look at blades as pieces of sheet metal to start. In period it would have been a more organic process of starting with bars or possibly blanks roughed formed and then refining ones finished piece out of the material.
In most cases where the tip has substantial thickness out to the point (as Hector describes well) it is your eye telling you its thicker. If you measure it usually does not swell back out as it gets to the tip. This is an optical trick that has thrown folks off for a long time.
There are some examples that do, but these are most likely specialized for the half sword or as tuck variants. Blade makers of the period are very sophisticated with the upper end blades and you can see great nuances in how they made them. It is something that you will miss if you can only see the sword in profile.
Best
Craig
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D. Nogueira
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Fri 03 Jul, 2015 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Blade crosssections |
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| Craig Johnson wrote: | | It is something that you will miss if you can only see the sword in profile. |
You hit the nail on the head... many of us are not lucky enough to handle or examine real historical samples (Sometimes for many people it is hard to even see historical swords in a museum) and %99.99 of the pictures that we find on the internet or in books don't show the actual distal tapering of these specialized swords.
However, I think that there are real samples with reinforced tips (With "swelling" as Hector says). There's even a nice picture of one in this Forum in other similar thread about this subject.
But maybe as you mention, this can be an exception to the rule.
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Lafayette C Curtis
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This is a standard topic