15e century cannon? -- myArmoury.com

M Hermes · Posted: Sat 28 Mar, 2015 11:02 pm Post subject: 15e century cannon?

Hi,
Bought this cannon a few days ago. I think that it's 15e century but maybe someone can identify it.
The bore is approximately 11cm and the length 54cm. looks like the front of the cannon broke of.
Hard to tell if this one is cast or forged, im not a specialist. If you look at the barrelbands, they have some kind of decoration on it.

Mark Griffin · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 4:26 am Post subject:

Bloody hell, nice one! It should be forged, hoop and stave construction. Send pics of the other end?

It looks very good to me. The only thing that's unusual are the zigzags on the bands. Never seen that....

Get this:

[url]http://www.boydellandbrewer.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=6992 its about the most comprehensive book on nthat era of cannon.
[/url]

its about the best book on the subject. You could also send pics to Royal Armouries Fort Nelson.

M Hermes · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 5:15 am Post subject:

Thanks Mark! I will make some better pics later today.

Victor R. · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 7:24 am Post subject:

If that broke, it broke very cleanly. I'm not an expert in the area, but it would appear to be the appropriate length for a mortar, rather than a cannon that lost its muzzle. What was the seller able to tell you about it?

Mark Griffin · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 8:53 am Post subject:

Yes, I'm thinking a small bombard type thing. One sold yesterday....
[url]
http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-cat...6bce[/url]

not quite the same thing the hoops are actually there to fix it onto the 'later' carriage. No other pics and I only bid online so didn't see it.

Mark Griffin · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 8:56 am Post subject:

Hang on, I missed the pic of the other end. That makes it a breech loader, and a biggie at that. Still very nice. Lots of those at Les Invalides and in a few other museums with siege connections. Malta and Rhodes spring to mind.

Its a lovely thing.

M Hermes · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 9:18 am Post subject:

Unfortunately i can not open the link😏. I bought the cannon from a guy who kept it in his shed for over 40 years. It was found in Nijmegen, a city not far from where a live. Also bought three mortar balls from him. Much younger than the cannon ofcourse The biggest one with a impresive 27cm in diameter.

Mark Griffin · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 10:16 am Post subject:

Ive just bought some stuff from Nijmegen, truly streets are paved with iron!

Victor R. · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 11:50 am Post subject:

Mark Griffin · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 11:59 am Post subject:

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-cat...6bce

should do it.

The barrel might be ok. The rest is modern. Look in the de Vries book, it really is the bible on such things.

Leo Todeschini · Industry Professional

Looks like a breech loader to me and not broken at all.

Next you are going to tell us you paid 30 Euro for it!

Good buy.

Tod

M Hermes · Posted: Sun 29 Mar, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject:

M Hermes · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 1:23 am Post subject:

What would be the best way to conserve this piece? The bore is a bit rusty and the former owner has painted the outside black.
Is it ok to use linseed oil on the rusty parts?

Mark Griffin · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 1:51 am Post subject:

Now you definitely need to be talking to a museum or conservation specialist. Don't go slapping stuff on or listen to anyone on here that doesn't have the right qualifications.

All oils and waxes will seal it, its what you are sealing in with them and what happens to the oils and wax over time that's the thing. bearing in mind that a lot of conservation time , esp on metals, is spent taking off the oils, waxes, vaselines and goodness knows what of previous well intentioned people.*

Over here we have a fair few people but I've asked Dr Arne Koets who used to be at the Dutch Army museum who might be best to talk to.

*Read the James Mann's stuff on his discovery of the Italian armours at Mantua.

M Hermes · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 3:31 am Post subject:

Thanks Mark for the advice! Think im going to contact the Dutch army museum.

Here some pics of the bisiness end. Im in doubt if the pieces of metal sticking out of the edge are caused by manufacturing or, as my first thought, where caused when a piece broke of?

Mark Griffin · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 3:46 am Post subject:

That's part of the folded back internal structure that have broken away. The staves forming the tube are left a bit proud and hammered back, its some of the end that's come off as its a bit weak.

That's the muzzle end. the other, with the recessed area, is where the breech pot fits in.

How yours was made here, look at how closely some of the features match yours

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYWDuXadosA

Sadly two of that exact type were also in last weekends auction and i bottled it. Would have been nice to have, but I have to eat!

M Hermes · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 4:02 am Post subject:

Thats a very nice Youtube movie! Explains a lot!

Mark Griffin · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 4:13 am Post subject:

I'd ascribe the zig zag designs to a more rustic artisan. Just a feeling but if it was contract/arsenal made, they probably wouldn't have bothered.

nearest i can find to yours...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder_artill...entury.jpg

M Hermes · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 5:40 am Post subject:

Yes i saw those two, it's a pity that it does not mention where they are on display.

Mark Griffin · Posted: Mon 30 Mar, 2015 5:46 am Post subject:

Think the picture is credited, Cluny Museum, Paris