[William P]

In this case im talking, for example, about the brigadine/ early COP style armour worn by the Stark family in the Game of Thrones series

this got me thinking as to whether the fact the plates being oriented in a diagonal fashion makes them less effective... my logic is based on the fact that a lot of sword cuts are delivered as diagonal strikes, rather the issue i see is that a diagonal strike might be more capable of striking the armour along the gaps between the plates.

any thoughts about whether this actually poses a significant issue?

[Luka Borscak]

Real coats of plates and brigandines have plates which overlap so orientation is irrelevant because there is no openings between the plates. But orientation such as on this picture is going to produce parts of armour with areas tricky to cover with plates or plates would have to be of complicated shapes. Regular orientation of plates makes it easy to make the best coverage of body with simply shaped plates.

[Michael Parker]

I would be concerned first about flexibility. All segmented armor has to wrap around the body so it can be worn, preferably in a way that allows the armor to be laid flat or folded up when it's not being worn, and allow the wearer to bend their torso to a reasonable extend. The human abdomen bends along a horizontal axis (the waist/hips), and the torso turns around a vertical axis (the spine). It would be one thing if the plates overlapped and were relatively small, and quilted cloth armor can be stitched diagonally because the whole material is flexible anyway, but such large diagonal CoP plates look like they would be stiffer on an up/down left/right orientation, which is not good for fighting in. Perhaps the biggest problem is that since they are joined together end to end, instead of overlapping, there is not really a means for the armor to scrunch up or compress where it needs to bend. In that sense it is more like splint armor than a brigandine, which is a legitimate form of armor in other cases. You can bend in a diagonal direction while wearing normal armor by simply bending forward and turning left/right at the same time, and most normal armor is articulated to allow a certain amount of compression of the lames on one side or the other, so there really isn't any need for the armor to have creases in a diagonal plane.

[Dan Howard]

[Sancar O.]

I don't think it is a brigandine; it looks like some sort of thick leather tunic with a diagonal rectangular pattern stamped on it. Rivets look to be ornamental.George Martin is a big fan of boiled leather armour in the books, so this might be costume designer's intrepretation.

[William P]

[Luka Borscak]

[Dan Howard]

[Ralph Grinly]

I'm pretty sure I've seen earlier Hollywood films with similar styles to that Brave Heart "Armour". Can't think of a specific example though. What I *did* just notice though is that bracer on his arm - with arrowheaded spikes ? Let's hear it for taking Hollywood as examples of 'real' armour ! Believe me - .the folks who actually made, and USED armour in REAL Life situations of llfe and death knew what worked, and what didn't.

[Stephen Curtin]

Yeah the arrow head bracer was Mel Gibson's own idea. He thought it would be useful for delivering a backhand blow.

[William P]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_yDLLneTuGJA/SjZAnysEwUI...urcoat.jpg heres a much better example,

i first heard of the example of non overlapping plates it from 'knight, noble warrior of england' for a C1290 English knight, i think that kind aof armour is known as a reinforced surcoat, and it was added on top of the maille, however it seems to be short lived since it was likely superseded by the COP
and finally i found the reference for it
it's a small statue or carving dated to around 1270 in this case there are clear lines showing plates that are not touching/ overlapping on either side.

i didnt realise the armour i linked was a braveheart replica.. i dfeel suitably embarrassed

however i think arguing over whether they could exist or not is moot, i think i have enough evidence to understand whether the stark armour would be decently functional.

[Dan Howard]

One interpretation is that each plate has four holes on the top and bottom edges and the outer holes overlap with their neighbours on either side.

[William P]

[Mart Shearer]

The closest thing in appearance that springs to mind is from the wall paintings at Björsäter Kyrka.

[Dan Howard]

[Dan Howard]

[Mart Shearer]

Dan,

If I remember the paintings are listed as c. 1325. The boards were salvaged from the old church to be re-used as firewood, but someone noticed they had been painted and notified authorities.

(I also left a "J" out of the name in my original post, since edited. It's Björsäter )

[Michael G.]

Regarding the Wienhausen sleeping knight, I see no reason to think that it shows anything different from what was typical of the coat of plates -- I see it as having overlapping plates, each with four holes and four rivets, each rivet going through one plate only.

[Jonathan Keogh]