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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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 Posted: Wed 29 Dec, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject: Sture Sword arrives |
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I've been waiting for this sword for about six years...
Here are some pictures as a teaser. I can tell you that it IS everything that it is supposed to be. Look for a future review...
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Jesse Smithers
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| Posted: Wed 29 Dec, 2004 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Nice sword. How does it handle? Is it hard to hold single-handed from just in front of the pommel? Yes, I know you wouldn't fight like that. I'm just curious.
Are you going to put anything in the pommel recesses? Have you made a scabbard for it yet? Yeh, I noticed you make scabbards.
I know I am asking a thousand questions. I just find that sword interesting. What is the purpose of making the blade so thick? Couldn't they just put fullers/risers to stiffen the blade. It just doesn't make sense to me, unless it was to make it more abuse proof.
Thanks.
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Stephen A. Fisher
Location: Kentucky USA Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 455
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David McElrea
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Hi Russ,
Thanks for the pics, and congratulations-- it's an absolutely gorgeous sword. I look forward to the review!
David
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Gary Grzybek
Location: Stillwater N.J. Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 559
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 4:51 am Post subject: |
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Your a lucky guy Russ 
I'm looking foward to your review.
Congradulations
Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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Jesse Smithers
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "Stephen A. Fisher" Jesse, This sword is based on an original, |
I know the history.  I know it is a direct copy of the sword found in Svante Nilsson Sture's grave. Who was murdered along with his son from a psychotic paranoid ruler in his castle(the ruler's), etc...etc...
I just wanted to hear everyones thoughts on why it was so thick, instead of the standard stiffening techniques of the day. There are many reasons that the sword intrigues me. The other thing about its design that got me was the fairly short blade on an exceptionally long grip. Any thoughts on why this was done? My only guess is for ease of draw.
Thanks
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William Goodwin
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 6:19 am Post subject: |
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Very nice looking piece, congrats Russ!
Bill
aka the other Bill G.
Roanoke Sword Guilde
roanokeswordguilde@live.com
"I was born for this" - Joan of Arc
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Eric McHugh
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| Jesse Smithers wrote: | | Quote: | | "Stephen A. Fisher" Jesse, This sword is based on an original, |
I know the history. I know it is a direct copy of the sword found in Svante Nilsson Sture's grave. Who was murdered along with his son from a psychotic paranoid ruler in his castle(the ruler's), etc...etc...
I just wanted to hear everyones thoughts on why it was so thick, instead of the standard stiffening techniques of the day. There are many reasons that the sword intrigues me. The other thing about its design that got me was the fairly short blade on an exceptionally long grip. Any thoughts on why this was done? My only guess is for ease of draw.
Thanks |
I don't normally like to comment on these sort of threads because it looks...well...biased; but this sword is worth some comments. The blade is thick because it is deeply hollow ground. This is a detail that is often overlooked when folks look at the raw numbers and see that the blade is nearly .5" thick at the cross. The short blade and the long handle combine to make a sword that is much faster and brutal than what mere statistics can describe. When you hold this sword, it becomes obvious that a master of the craft made it. The balance is extraordinary. The pivot point of the sword at the first finger position (right behind the cross) is at the very tip of the sword, so with your first hand you have a high degree of control in tracking the tip of the sword. It takes a master of the craft to forge, polish, and mount a sword that has that precise of a pivot point. The long handle on this shorter blade gives this war-sword size sword the feel of a much lighter slimmer sword. Now, don't get me wrong, it is a big sword, but it doesn't at all handle like a big sword.
In the cut, it is probably the most brutal sword that I have held. It tracks very well and cuts in a nightmarish manner. I think all of this is a testimony to the kinda guy that the Viceroy was. He obviously wanted a elegant, brutal weapon that would make an impression on all who had the unfortunate opportunity to see the business side of it. He wanted to make a statement with this sword, and it fulfills that statement in every way (function and form).
In short (and I know the way this sounds), every sword fan should try to get this sword. It is a unique and stunning example of how high the craft of sword making can climb (talking about the original master who made it). It is expensive because of all of these details, but there is simply nothing like this sword on the market. If another company was making this sword, I would purchase it because I think it is that important of a sword for a collector. In fact, I plan to add it to my collection as soon as I can afford it.
I know this all sounds like self advertising and I know I will get some criticism for it, but I think it is worth the risk to point out how great this sword really is...
Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Gordon Clark
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| Eric McHugh wrote: | | I don't normally like to comment on these sort of threads because it looks...well...biased; but this sword is worth some comments. .... |
Eric,
I think it is nice seeing people really excited about what they are producing. I know that you guys who do this for a living have some real passion for the work and the results, but sometimes it doesn't come through like it could. I'm very glad to read how happy you all are with a product like this.
Gordon
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Jesse Smithers
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Great reply Eric McHugh. Just what I was looking for. Lets see if I understood correctly.
The long grip with a short blade is to create a large sword dynamic with the handling of a smaller sword. The thickness adds mass to cause extreme damage on a relatively short blade. The extremely talented smith made the sword very pointable, dispite its obvious cleaving abilities, by having a pivot point at the very tip of the blade. So it can stab with finess and authority. Did I summarize what you wrote correctly? If I did, you answered my questions beautifully.
| Quote: | | "Eric McHugh" The blade is thick because it is deeply hollow ground. |
Oh, I have to disagree with that one statement. Though I believe it was a simple mistake. I assume you meant, "yes it is thick, but not unwieldy because it is deeply hollow ground."
I don't blame you for "self advertising." I haven't read a single bad thing about this sword. In fact, I hear nothing but high praise up to sword worship. I have never seen this kind of dedication to any sword I have read reviews of.
Last edited by Jesse Smithers on Thu 30 Dec, 2004 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Eric McHugh
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Oh, I have to disagree with that one statement. Though I believe it was a simple mistake. I assume you meant, "yes it is thick, but not unwieldy because it is deeply hollow ground." |
What's to disagree with?  I mean it is a thick blade: nearly 0.5" from top of riser to top of riser. We have to use 0.5" stock to mill the blank. Most swords I know of are at or just under 0.25" (6 mm). This is nearly double that thickness, but since it is deeply hollow ground, it requires this thickness to make the diameter on the bevels work and achieve a correct cutting edge. Perhaps a better way to say it is: "the blade is thick to accomodate a deeply hollow ground bevel."
Find me on Facebook, or check out my blog. Contact me at eric@crownforge.net or ericmycue374@comcast.net if you want to talk about a commission or discuss an available piece.
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Jesse Smithers
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | "Eric McHugh" Perhaps a better way to say it is: "the blade is thick to accomodate a deeply hollow ground bevel." |
Thanks for the clarification.
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Joel Whitmore
Location: Simmesport, LA Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: Way to go Russ! |
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I fell in love with that sword from the moment Bjorn introduced us to Peter J. To me it also represents how elegant and powerful a sword can be. I would like to ask you for a closeup of the tip of the blade. There is something about the Albion photos that makes the tip look, well off. I am sure this is an optical illusion as it doesn't seem to occur on Peter's original reproduction. It is a grogeous piece, one you can certianly call a "keeper". What a beauty and what a guy to have it. Congratulations Russ!
Joel
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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I was very impressed by this sword when I handled Peter's original last year, and when I had the opportunity to handle several production versions in different stages of manufacture this year.
Yes, it is expensive. But the aspects of price vs quality are subjective and can only be decided by the individual. All I can say is that if I could only own one sword it would be this one. I'm just not willing at this point to clear out the rest of my collection to get it.
Amazing sword.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Lee O'Hagan
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Congratatulations on the beaut of a sword Russ,
Fantastic looking piece,
The specs make for some tangible jealous reading too chap,
Hollow ground blades, wonderfull invention!
Large nod of respect to Peter and the Albion team too,
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Russ Ellis
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys.
Jesse, I think Eric probably did a better job then I could with the questions on the actual blade construction. The sword handles well extraordinarily so in fact and you can use it with one hand, however with one hand just in front of the pommel it's not really at it's best, to much leverage on the blade that way... I'm curious, why do you ask?
I hadn't really planned to put anything in the recesses, for one no one is completely sure exactly what was in there on the originals. There is some highly educated speculation that there may have been some sort of religious icons there but I've never seen anything definitive. I suspect I'd have to get such things custom made and I prefer to spend money on more swords.
As for the scabbard, yes I hope to make one. However as they say the butcher never eats meat. Sadly I have few scabbards for my own swords. It's ironic but when I'm working on scabbards I'm working on a customer's project typically.
I'll try to make information available on it asap. It's an outstanding piece, probably the best I've ever handled with the possible exception of some very high end custom pieces and truthfully even then I'm thinking this one is probably every bit as nice as those although not as expensive. Patrick has pointed out that it is in fact a fairly pricey piece, but honestly for the amount of work that obviously went into it I have to say I think its a bit of a bargain. Does that mean you should clear out your collection and rush out to buy one? Well that's rather subjective. I first saw a picture of this sword on Albion's website I believe back in 1998 or 1999. At the time they were just tentatively trying to figure out how to bring Peter Johnson's work to a mass market without having him pound out every piece personally. I emailed them at the time to find out how to get my hands on the pictured sword. Howy told me that he thought (optimistically) it would be a couple of years. It has been six but it was worth the wait. I tried some other things in the meantime including cobbling together my own version from an Arms and Armor blade and Erik Stevenson (spelling?) hilt components and managed to make a heck of a sword. However it still wasn't the same. This one is. I personally would have cleaned out my whole collection to buy it. Fortunately it didn't come to that I managed to hang on to all my Arms and Armor pieces which are the basis of my collection.
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Jesse Smithers
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | | The sword handles well extraordinarily so in fact and you can use it with one hand, however with one hand just in front of the pommel it's not really at it's best, to much leverage on the blade that way... I'm curious, why do you ask? |
I expect it to be cumbersome when holding it by the pommel. If the tip drops like a rock or floats like a ...butterfly, it gives me alot of handling info. It really does gives me an idea how it feels when actually fighting. I know it's a strange question, but it did help me. Thanks.
For instance, I got to play with the Brescia Spadona. When held by the pommel, the tip wanted to slowly drop. Though it was easily convinced to float the tip in place. A very agile sword. Holding the pommel and the grip at the guard, made it move like lightning. If it had sunk like a rock, It still might be manuverable with 2 hands. But, I doubt it would have "moved like lightning." I hope I explained well why I wanted to know.
| Russ Ellis wrote: | | As for the scabbard, yes I hope to make one. However as they say the butcher never eats meat. Sadly I have few scabbards for my own swords. It's ironic but when I'm working on scabbards I'm working on a customer's project typically. |
It's Christmas or at least was. Make it a gift to yourself. A custom handmade scabbard for your Christmas Present, the Sture Sword.
Russ-Eric McHugh did give me the answers I needed. Thanks.
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Joel Whitmore
Location: Simmesport, LA Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Fri 31 Dec, 2004 12:45 am Post subject: I have never heard of this before |
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[quote="Jesse Smithers"][quote="Russ Ellis"]
For instance, I got to play with the Brescia Spadona. When held by the pommel, the tip wanted to slowly drop. Though it was easily convinced to float the tip in place. A very agile sword. Holding the pommel and the grip at the guard, made it move like lightning. If it had sunk like a rock, It still might be manuverable with 2 hands. But, I doubt it would have "moved like lightning." I hope I explained well why I wanted to know.
quote]
Jesse Imust admit I have never heard of this "test" before. I am kinda confused as to what you mean. A two-handed sword was made to be weilded with two hands. I can swing my A&A English 2-hander with one if I want, but it was not designed to be used that way. Am I right in assuming that you are testing to see if the sword could be used well with one hand? Or are you simply testing to see if the sword has the right weight for you? Neither the Sture nor the Bresca are lightweights with the Bresca's COG being only 3.5" in front of the cross. To me this would make for a very quick sword with two hands, as it was meant to be used. The Sture's COG is even closer and it has a shorter blade, though I have heard Russ and others comment how large the blade really is in person. Take a sword like the Baron where the COG is 5.25" out, then holding it by the pommel would make this sword feel "heavier" than the Sture. Numbers don't tell all of course and I curious about what your test is made to achieve. Would the Baron not move like "lightening" ? I think that depends on whose weilding it. Does it have to move like lightening to be a good sword? That depends on what you define as "good". I am not trying to sound critical here, but we have to remember that specific swords were designed to be used for specific purposes and fighting styles. Would I use the Sture with a shield in one hand? Probably not. Would I take a viking sword to a 15th century judicial duel? No there again. I guess this rant is basically asking if this litmus test is a purely personal preference?
Joel
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Steve Grisetti
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| Posted: Fri 31 Dec, 2004 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Sture Sword arrives |
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| Russ Ellis wrote: | I've been waiting for this sword for about six years...
Here are some pictures as a teaser. I can tell you that it IS everything that it is supposed to be. Look for a future review... |
A slightly belated congratulations, Russ. This looks like a magnificent piece. Anxiously awaiting the review. Don't let us wait the six years that you did!
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Jesse Smithers
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| Posted: Fri 31 Dec, 2004 8:25 am Post subject: Re: I have never heard of this before |
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I knew I shouldn't have answered that question.  I made up the test myself. The test works for me to get an idea how it handles. That's it, nothing more. Also the test does not involve swinging it. Just holding it perfectly still for a second to see where the tip wants to go and how fast it wants to get there. It helps me test 'blade presence' I combine in my mind the dropping of the tip from holding the pommel and dropping of the tip from holding the guard.
| Joel Whitmore wrote: | | Would the Baron not move like "lightning" ? I think that depends on whose weilding it. |
Exactly. If a 5' skinny guy holds a Baron and a 6' 6" weightlifter holds a Baron. They will get completely different impressions. All my test does is to help remove the person from the equation. Obviously I can't completely remove the person, but it helps alot.
| Quote: | | Does it have to move like lightning to be a good sword? That depends on what you define as "good" |
Of course not. Just different handling. And yes it does depend on one's idea of good.
| Quote: | | Am I right in assuming that you are testing to see if the sword could be used well with one hand? |
The test will give that information. It will also tell me how agile it will be with 2 hands. If the tip drops like a rock, the sword will definately be a 2 hander instead of a hand and a half. It also tells me how well it will handle with 2 hands. For instance, in a fight you never want to over commit. With the 'floater tip', I only have to worry about myself over committing. With the 'rock tip', I have to be aware of my momentum and the sword's too or I may stop and the sword doesn't which then pulls me to over commit. Neither sword is bad. It just takes different; techniques, self-awareness and follow through.
| Quote: | | Or are you simply testing to see if the sword has the right weight for you? |
No. Purely for agility, blade presence, momentum.
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This is a standard topic