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Eric Bergeron
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 Posted: Tue 28 Dec, 2004 2:45 pm Post subject: Peter have you handled Del Tin's version of Falcata? |
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Hey Peter since you have held a original falcata, have you by any chance held Del Tin's version? If so what are your comments on it?
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Peter Johnsson
Industry Professional
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 6:17 am Post subject: Re: Peter have you handled Del Tin's version of Falcata? |
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| Eric Bergeron wrote: | | Hey Peter since you have held a original falcata, have you by any chance held Del Tin's version? If so what are your comments on it? |
The Del Tin falcata must be seen in the aspect of its price level. It is a simplified version inspired by an original (or several)
Originals are much more agile, lively, precise and have a strong authority.
There is really no comparison to an original.
The cross section of the Del Tin sword is flat with a secondary edge bevel and very little activity in distal taper and cross section.
It works ok according to its price point, but originals are much more crisp and developed. Original falcatas (judging from the ne I have held and others I have studied in museums as displayed) are more intricate in their details and more crisp in their execution.
Del Tin makes swords of high quality for his price range. He is doing a great job with this, but originals are still far removed from his replicas. There is no shame in this, it is just in the nature of things when you have to do the compromises Del Tin has to work with.
The main reason is that he has to keep his prices low, since the general understanding and appreciation of the craft among entusiasts is not very developed. Most everyone wants a cheap deal and are prepared to live with a number of compromises in order to keep production on a low level of complexity.
In Italy it is also forbidden to make sharp swords. This aspect should not be underestimated and is very obvious in Del Tin designs. The blade section is blunt and much more crude than what you find on original swords, from any age. Blades tend to have less activity in distal taper and cross section.
Please understand that I normally refrain from comment on some other maker work, since I cannot be anything but partial in these kind of discussions however much I try otherwise. I must respond from my own perspective and philosophy and that is not automatically applicable to another makers work.
I want to say that I respect Del Tin and his work. He has been in this business for many years and really helped create a new niche in the market.
His swords are good for their price point, but one should understand them in their context.
Comparing the Del Tin falcata with an original is unfair, since the original was made to be a dependable weapon, where as Del Tin makes a replica for decorative purpose for a market that has a low level of appreciation of the finer aspects of the craft.
I know people will react saying that a Del Tin sword can be used in test cutting or even sparring, and that is indeed a testimonial that they are made in a rather solid way. Del Tin himself states that his swords are made for decorative purposes in mind and one should not expect such a sword to compare in any way with a swords that was made to be a weapon. You cannot use such a sword and hope to get an understanding of what an authentic sword would be.
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Steve Fabert
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Peter have you handled Del Tin's version of Falcata? |
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| Peter Johnsson wrote: | | In Italy it is also forbidden to make sharp swords. |
I had wondered if the blunt edges on Del Tins were just a personal preference of the maker or if there was another reason. If Italian law requires blunt edges, that explains a lot.
I own quite a few Del Tin swords, and appreciate them very much as works for display. Del Tin reproduces a wide variety of styles that adequately simulate historical types, many of which have not been reproduced by any other quality swordmaker (so far). Clearly they are not intended to compare functionally to Albions, or other reproduction swords designed for cutting.
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Benjamin McCracken
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 11:26 am Post subject: |
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I'm finding this thread a bit on the depressing side. I was really considering a del tin for sparring and practice. Now I'm not sure what I am going to do. I would love to get a next gen from Albion, but (at least as far as I know) they are all sharps. My wife will not allow a sharp sword in the house, so this complicates things. Albion does have the squire line, but now I'm wondering if they handle like an original.
One thing other thing that popped into my head while I read Peter's post was that there were tourney swords and blunts for training. I may be stretching this but I think that a knight, man at arms, squire probably spent more time actually working with blunt blades or wasters.
Ben
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Roger Hooper
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| Benjamin McCracken wrote: | I'm finding this thread a bit on the depressing side. I was really considering a del tin for sparring and practice. Now I'm not sure what I am going to do. I would love to get a next gen from Albion, but (at least as far as I know) they are all sharps. My wife will not allow a sharp sword in the house, so this complicates things. Albion does have the squire line, but now I'm wondering if they handle like an original.
One thing other thing that popped into my head while I read Peter's post was that there were tourney swords and blunts for training. I may be stretching this but I think that a knight, man at arms, squire probably spent more time actually working with blunt blades or wasters.
Ben |
Ben - two things:
Many people, especially in Europe use Del Tins for sparring. Most reenactment swords, because of the abuse they take, are thicker and heavier than the Medieval originals, or modern sharp reproductions.
Albion does make some swords that may be exactly what you're looking for - Check out the Squire Line of swords, which are designed for reenactment, are are lighter and more lively than Del Tins, but still sturdy.
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Gary Grzybek
Location: Stillwater N.J. Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 559
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Benjamin McCracken wrote: | I'm finding this thread a bit on the depressing side. I was really considering a del tin for sparring and practice. Now I'm not sure what I am going to do. I would love to get a next gen from Albion, but (at least as far as I know) they are all sharps. My wife will not allow a sharp sword in the house, so this complicates things. Albion does have the squire line, but now I'm wondering if they handle like an original.
One thing other thing that popped into my head while I read Peter's post was that there were tourney swords and blunts for training. I may be stretching this but I think that a knight, man at arms, squire probably spent more time actually working with blunt blades or wasters.
Ben |
Ben,
There is nothing wrong with Del Tin swords if you don't hold too high of an expectation for them. I have owned several models over the years and still have one that I don't intend to sell. They are of good value for the money like Peter said. For entry level I'd say they are the best to start with. Some models are better than others so post here before you buy or look for reviews.
The Albion Squire line looks very promising but I have yet to handle one myself.
Gary Grzybek
ARMA Northern N.J.
www.armastudy.org
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Benjamin McCracken
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys. I'm feeling better.
Ben
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Paul Mortimer
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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I have a Del Tin falcata and I like it very much. It may not be an original or even of the best quality, but I suspect that the quality of originals varied a good deal, and some would have been much poorer than a Del Tin. Others would have been superb specimens. Mine gives me considerable insight into how such a sword would have been used, how it felt, etc. Of course there are better falcatas around but the cost would be considerably more than Fulvio charges and maybe one day I'll get around to getting one of them. Until then, mine will do very nicely.
Cheers,
Paul
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Jonathon Janusz
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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On the Albion Squire Line, reenactment and martial arts practice are what these pieces are specifically marketed for. They are sold blunt but don't have the heft of the Del Tin nor the thickness at the edge. The best way I can describe it is if you were to take a Next Gen sword and have it shipped rebated, put a little more meat at the edge, make the hilt components a little more simple in design (not any less a component, mind you, just quicker/easier to produce) and take the polish down a grit or two and you'd have something pretty close to the Squire Line. In my (admittedly limited on some of the models, but I pretty much lived with a Squire Viking in hand for two days) experience, you'll be hard pressed to find a more historically accurate practice weapon in durability and feel for your dollar and at a price that won't scare you away from REALLY using the weapon.
. . . and in reference to "blunt", the points still have a little bite to them and the edges are a wee bit keener than "MRL dull". So, I think a plus for martial arts drills in that there's still enough there to wake you up such that you don't forget you're swinging a sword around, but keep your practice a safe distance from kids, pets, soft cuttable things, etc. Otherwise, for the casual pick up and play with kind of thing, I can hold one edge on against the palm of my hand without worries (I see the type XV as great for this reason - take baby steps toward half-swording without fear of cutting your hand to ribbons! I know the physical dynamics of it are sound, Peter, but still. . . the first couple of times really going after it with a sharp is going to take some stones on my part  ) Back on topic, if you're still worried that Squire Line blunt is still too sharp, talk to Mike at Albion and I'm sure they can figure something out (I remember some rumblings about playing with edge thickness when Lloyd was talking about using the Squire Line for stage combat).
I was going to throw in $.02, but y'all got about $1.25 
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Lee O'Hagan
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone have links for the falcatas in production being discussed,?
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Thu 30 Dec, 2004 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately, AFAIK, the Del Tin Falcata is probably the best "production" falcata currently on the market. To get something considerably more like an original, you'd have to go custom. I've seen some very nice-looking examples from Al Massey, J.T. Palikko, and Vince Evans. It would be cool if one of the better companies (Atrim, Albion, Arms & Armor) made a falcata, but they don't (I guess A&A could do one on a custom basis....).
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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