Scabbard lacing -- myArmoury.com

Harry Marinakis · Posted: Tue 14 Jan, 2014 1:34 pm Post subject: Scabbard lacing

Anyone have a pattern/instructions for the backwards "Z" lacing pattern shown below?

It's a bit different than the "X lacing pattern shown on these instructions:
www.yeoldegaffers.com/projects/scabbard/instructions.jpg

Thanks

Robin Smith · Posted: Tue 14 Jan, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject:

The backwards Z is seen alot in 12th-13th C minis. I've always assumed that is the artistic representation of the suspension method found on the Sword of King Sancho of Castille or atleast something close.

Photobucket image

Robin Smith · Posted: Tue 14 Jan, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject:

There is also the St. Maurice of Turin.

Photobucket image

But no one has a good shot of the backside that I know of, except Peter J, and he hasn't revealed what he has.

Harry Marinakis · Posted: Tue 14 Jan, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject:

Thanks

My concern was that the diagonal of the "Z" was not tacked down in front, as it is with the "X" lacing pattern. It could, therefore, lift away from the scabbard.

In the 1st photo posted by Robin the diagonal appears to be sewn at the top and bottom, which would prevent it from pulling away from the scabbard.

In the 2nd photo it looks like the strap goes around twice to secure the diagonal.

Harry Marinakis · Posted: Tue 14 Jan, 2014 4:30 pm Post subject:

Here's what I was considering. It's like the "X" pattern except the yellow tail is not taken across the front to cross ("X") over the blue strap, but instead it's taken down below the the sewn belt and tied in front (like the "X" pattern).

Comments?

Lloyd Winter · Posted: Tue 14 Jan, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject:

I've done a couple of sword belts in the "King Sancho" style.

My version is a simple friction fit one piece frog with the belt straps sewn to the loops, which works really well on tapered blades. I've never tried this with a type X - XIII blade, although I'm contemplating a sword belt for my steward so who knows what the future holds.

I've attached a couple of pics of the belt I did for my yeoman, including the paper pattern and one failed attempt where the diagonal on the z was way too long.
I found that the secret in making sure the diagonal doesn't buckle or lift away from the scabbard is to make sure the bottom loop is as far up the scabbard as it can possibly go. If it has room to slip further up the scabbard when you are wearing the sword the diagonal strap will buckle. I had to do 3 versions to get it right, but it takes a fairly small piece of leather and less than an hour to produce so it's not that big an effort to tweak the pattern several times. I also found this is a lot easier to do with a wider belt, the pics show a 1 3/8 belt strap, I was never able to get one I liked with a 1" strap.

hope this helps.

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Bryan Heff · Posted: Wed 15 Jan, 2014 4:00 am Post subject:

Lloyd -

That is good work, I really like that style. Very nicely done.

Robin Smith · Posted: Wed 15 Jan, 2014 5:22 am Post subject:

Patrick Kelly · Posted: Wed 15 Jan, 2014 9:33 am Post subject:

This one mimics Lloyd's method.

Johan Gemvik · Posted: Sun 19 Jan, 2014 1:27 pm Post subject:

The earliest depictions of the Z-loop system I've seen is the biography of Ivar the boneless,, he lived in the late 700s- to late 800s (long life indeed for a crippled viking). The biography may have been written and illustrated some time after that, maybe another 100 years. I'll see if I can find it. But it was in use at least until the burial of Scancho IV 1295.

The photos of the scabbard loops above are just gorgeous! Of course, I've made a couple myself but these really capture the essence of the Sancho IV scabbard loop system using intricate tooling. Harrys idea about the St Maurice seems solid too, an obvious and logical hybrid of the Z and X-system.

About the loop slipping, I had no issues with that as the type X scabbards I made still tapered on all sides and I made the loop tight enough to accomodate some stretching and then presed it in place.
Patricks example above with the underlying band (or carving in the Wood itself, but more likely a leather band) would make it even more secure of course and from what I can see in the photos the Sancho IV sword has one.

Foong Chen Hong · Posted: Sun 19 Jan, 2014 2:30 pm Post subject:

This is something new to me, but that scabbard definite look amazing.

Harry Marinakis · Posted: Mon 20 Jan, 2014 1:09 pm Post subject:

Completed lacing:

Bryan Heff · Posted: Tue 18 Mar, 2014 8:52 am Post subject:

Harry -

That looks great. I must have missed your last post since it was more than a month ago. I think the lacing turned out really nice.

How do you find the diagonal piece that connects the upper and lower part of the backwards 'Z'? It appears to be sort of floating on top of the scabbard leather, does it want to pull away or does it stay right there nicely.

Thanks!

Maciej K. · Industry Professional

Harry - can you show the back side of scabbard?
Looks very good.

Harry Marinakis · Posted: Thu 03 Apr, 2014 1:58 pm Post subject:

The stitching on the backside is not very good, sorry.

In regards to the straps that cross on the backside - they also go through the dark brown scabbard cover to help prevent the belt from sliding up the scabbard.

The diagonal strap is floating, it does pull away slightly but the wrap around the upper strap at the bifurcation holds it in place.