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Benjamin H. Abbott




Location: New Mexico
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric S wrote:
Now that would be something, image all of the known European mail images collected and made available for viewing in one place, that would be a worth while effort.

http://www.pinterest.com/samuraiantiques/european-mail-armor/


Nice delivery. Thanks for putting both galleries together.
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Benjamin H. Abbott wrote:
Eric S wrote:
Now that would be something, image all of the known European mail images collected and made available for viewing in one place, that would be a worth while effort.

http://www.pinterest.com/samuraiantiques/european-mail-armor/


Nice delivery. Thanks for putting both galleries together.


Pinterest does have its uses, a fast easy way to visibly store and share your images. There are a lot of different types of Japanese mail here. http://www.pinterest.com/nihonnokatchu/samura...ual-parts/
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Robert Rootslane




Location: Estonia
Joined: 06 Aug 2007

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec, 2013 9:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thought id throw in 2 pictures of mail fragments from Estonia, that were shared in internet by one of our reenactors a while ago. I should also have pics about other mail fragments found from here, but at the moment i cant seem to find them, so gonna have to add em later.

http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?app=ga...mage=12445
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?app=ga...mage=12444

Probably 12-early 13 century. About 7-7,5mm id, with 1,5-1,8mm ring material.
The one with a big ring is thought to have been worn as a pendant after the hauberk was broken or something.


R
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Stanley Hauser





Joined: 17 Sep 2013

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric S wrote:
Stanley Hauser wrote:
Benjamin H. Abbott wrote:
This site has a ton of pictures of Middle Eastern and South Asian mail, some of which are up close.


Awesome! Now only if they had a European mail gallery...


Now that would be something, imagine all of the known European mail images collected and made available for viewing in one place, that would be a worth while effort.

http://www.pinterest.com/samuraiantiques/european-mail-armor/


I just realized that my comment may have come off as sarcastic...sorry Eric, I really didn't mean for it to come off that way.

Again, thanks for the link, this is exactly what I was looking for.
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Eric S




Location: new orleans
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PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stanley Hauser wrote:


I just realized that my comment may have come off as sarcastic...sorry Eric, I really didn't mean for it to come off that way.

Again, thanks for the link, this is exactly what I was looking for.
I did not think that all, I thought it was funny as I just started my European mail pinterest site a few week ago so that I would not have to find all of my stored images over and over.

I am actually quite serious, I think it is about time that the existing mail images that forum members have stored away on their individual computers be put together in a way that is accessible to everyone and I think that pinterest is a great format for storing and sharing images.
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Mart Shearer




Location: Jackson, MS, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert Rootslane wrote:
Thought id throw in 2 pictures of mail fragments from Estonia, that were shared in internet by one of our reenactors a while ago. I should also have pics about other mail fragments found from here, but at the moment i cant seem to find them, so gonna have to add em later.

http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?app=ga...mage=12445
http://www.tforum.info/forum/index.php?app=ga...mage=12444

Probably 12-early 13 century. About 7-7,5mm id, with 1,5-1,8mm ring material.
The one with a big ring is thought to have been worn as a pendant after the hauberk was broken or something.


R


What leads them to such wild speculation?

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I have seen an article about small pieces of mail from Roman-era Germanic graves (as I recall!), apparently from women's graves. They just seem to be ornaments of some kind. There's usually something attached--trying to remember what. Miniature spear heads or little knife blades, that kind of thing, I think. Might take some digging to find the article, must have been in the Journal of Roman Military Equipment Studies. But in any case, it's a probable case of mail bits serving as jewelry, though rather earlier than the 12th century.

Matthew
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is likely that the original invention of mail was inspired from jewellery. Does anyone have any pics of the alleged Etruscan mail that some people think predate the Gallic use of mail armour?
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Stanley Hauser





Joined: 17 Sep 2013

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PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Eric S wrote:
Stanley Hauser wrote:


I just realized that my comment may have come off as sarcastic...sorry Eric, I really didn't mean for it to come off that way.

Again, thanks for the link, this is exactly what I was looking for.
I did not think that all, I thought it was funny as I just started my European mail pinterest site a few week ago so that I would not have to find all of my stored images over and over.

I am actually quite serious, I think it is about time that the existing mail images that forum members have stored away on their individual computers be put together in a way that is accessible to everyone and I think that pinterest is a great format for storing and sharing images.


Phew, ok, well thank you all the same. That is actually quite the happy coincidence.

By the way, would you or anyone else happen to have any images of mail made by Erik Schmid or other prominent modern mailers? In fact, who else makes high quality mail these days other than Schmid?

The only images of Schmid mail I can find are an old coif of his and two pictures of some of his 12th Century round riveted mail, but I'm not sure if either of those are representative of his later work.

http://imageshack.us/a/img405/5629/12thcenturyreprofront.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/9541/12thcenturyreproback.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/32...2457_n.jpg
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Eric S




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PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stanley Hauser wrote:

By the way, would you or anyone else happen to have any images of mail made by Erik Schmid or other prominent modern mailers? In fact, who else makes high quality mail these days other than Schmid?

The only images of Schmid mail I can find are an old coif of his and two pictures of some of his 12th Century round riveted mail, but I'm not sure if either of those are representative of his later work.





A couple more.






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Eric S




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PostPosted: Sat 07 Dec, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[quote="Stanley Hauser"]
Eric S wrote:

By the way, would you or anyone else happen to have any images of mail made by Erik Schmid or other prominent modern mailers?


From Julio Junco Funes.
http://www.cotasdemalla.es/ma1.htm





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Eric S




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert Rootslane wrote:
. I should also have pics about other mail fragments found from here, but at the moment i cant seem to find them, so gonna have to add em later.

Robert, any luck finding more images?

Here is one of the images that you posted after a little editing.

European (Estonia) riveted mail fragment, possibly 12th to 13th century, about 7-7,5mm id, with 1,5-1,8mm ring material.
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Kai Lawson





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PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368071683595/

I checked and double checked this one; and got out a ruler for comparison. Unreal. I can't fathom what this would look like in person. Like the tiniest, finest-linked shark mail, or something...

Absolutely unreal. The gallery is amazing! Thanks!!

"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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Eric S




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PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
Does anyone have any pics of the alleged Etruscan mail that some people think predate the Gallic use of mail armour?


Etruscan mail, from Stone:"A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms And Armor in All Countries and in All Times", 1934.



Etruscan sword belt showing an early form of mail on the bottom edge, in the bronze room at the Louvre, Paris France.




Detail of the attachment method, tiny little S hooks. Hanging rings are punched, connecting rings butted.
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Dan Howard




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PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's what I was looking for. So is it armour or decoration?
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen and Sword Books
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Eric S




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PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
That's what I was looking for. So is it armour or decoration?

That would be a matter of personal opinion, it may have been decorative and defensive, a curtain of mail would protect that area better than no curtain and it would not effect maneuverability, and seeing how this may be the only available image to go on I would say that even if the use of it as shown is rather decorative it would be easy to see how it transitioned into being used as armor.

Here is a different view, it looks rather thick when seen from this angle.
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Eric S




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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec, 2013 8:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kai Lawson wrote:
http://www.pinterest.com/pin/7881368071683595/

I checked and double checked this one; and got out a ruler for comparison. Unreal. I can't fathom what this would look like in person. Like the tiniest, finest-linked shark mail, or something...

Absolutely unreal. The gallery is amazing! Thanks!!

Kai, here is a better image of what this extremely small link mail would look like when used, I do not know if this represents the smallest links in use but even this small is amazing. When you see an Italian and the the Sinigaglia hauberk compared to this one, the difference in link size is apparent.





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Kai Lawson





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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am currently taking a break from the lab, but I had the digital calipers out and was looking at the actual thickness of 0.6 mm, and was really unsure how you get a rivet head to form properly (even with pliers) using rivet wire that has to be only a few hairs thick. Those pictures look like a really rough-woven fiber cloth rather than mail. Where is the shirt from?
"And they crossed swords."
--William Goldman, alias S. Morgenstern
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Mart Shearer




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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The source thread?
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14810

ferrum ferro acuitur et homo exacuit faciem amici sui
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Eric S




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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kai Lawson wrote:
I am currently taking a break from the lab, but I had the digital calipers out and was looking at the actual thickness of 0.6 mm, and was really unsure how you get a rivet head to form properly (even with pliers) using rivet wire that has to be only a few hairs thick. Those pictures look like a really rough-woven fiber cloth rather than mail. Where is the shirt from?


Kai the shirt I posted is really mail, there is some debate as to whether such fine mail was actually armor or just a type of vanity shirt due to the size of the rivet and the inherent weakness of a link made with such a small diameter rivet.

Taking photographs of mail is not easy, I have many unusable images that people have taken at various museums and from private collections, taking a good image of this fine mail would be extra difficult, I think the photographer did a good job considering the lighting in most museums is not good and many do not allow flash.


Hauberk from Le Grand Curtius, Liège, Belgium.




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