Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search


myArmoury.com is now completely member-supported. Please contribute to our efforts with a donation. Your donations will go towards updating our site, modernizing it, and keeping it viable long-term.
Last 10 Donors: Daniel Sullivan, Anonymous, Chad Arnow, Jonathan Dean, M. Oroszlany, Sam Arwas, Barry C. Hutchins, Dan Kary, Oskar Gessler, Dave Tonge (View All Donors)

Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Deepeeka sword of Saint Maurice...new Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,294

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Deepeeka sword of Saint Maurice...new         Reply with quote

Just saw this in the new additions section at KOA. Don't really know how to post a link or a pic, but I bet someone out there does. I just thought this looked like a good, cheap beater...and not a half bad looking one either. A far cry from the original, but it looks like it could take a lickin'.......Go to KOA and take a look. Thoughts?.........McM
View user's profile Send private message
Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 393

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure their swords has a glued pommel.
View user's profile Send private message
Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
Joined: 27 Nov 2007

Posts: 625

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Mark,

The new Deepeekas (of which the St. Maurice is one) look like they are pretty good for the money, especially if you want to consider them projects/customize them. There have been a couple of reviews on the new swords here and on SBG but not on the St. Maurice itself (I don't believe anyway). A couple of Deepeeka reps were here a few months ago and they had some encouraging things to say about the direction they want to head and addressed concerns.


Anyway, I mean to pick some of them up if I have the money and remember.

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,294

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Edward.......The pommel is peened. Obvious by the photos. Ian..........Thanks. I've read the threads here on the Armoury. It indeed looks like Deepeeka is trying to up their game. I've never owned one, but have seen several models that did look like good swords for ...surgery. Wink .......McM
View user's profile Send private message
Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Likes: 7 pages

Posts: 2,307

PostPosted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Their new swords do look quite good, the dimensions aren't even close to the originals they are "replicating" but for a reenactor who want's a relatively authentic looking sword that can take beating and is cheap, they are almost ideal...
View user's profile Send private message
J. Hargis




Location: Pacific Palisades, California
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Likes: 22 pages

Posts: 350

PostPosted: Fri 08 Nov, 2013 6:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here we go:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...t+Maurice+





Jon

A poorly maintained weapon is likely to belong to an unsafe and careless fighter.
View user's profile Send private message
J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,903

PostPosted: Fri 08 Nov, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Compare to these swords:

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...eval+Sword

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...St+Maurice

http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...t+Maurice+
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Greg Ballantyne




Location: Maryland USA
Joined: 14 Feb 2011
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 235

PostPosted: Fri 08 Nov, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

While Deepeeka's products may have improved, they still have a long way to go to reach any level of ability to accurately reproduce an historical specimen.........
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,294

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 7:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I totally agree, Greg. On this particular sword, the guard and pommel are passable(loosely), but the blade needs refinement. With a PoB of over 7"...that's a case of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome waiting to happen. In other words, way blade heavy. I can imagine with a thinned out blade and a nice wire wrapped grip, this could be a nice looking sword. I think the craftsmen at Deepeeka are not so much lacking in ability, as they are being restricted in them to keep cost down and quicken production time. I'd love to see the Deepeeka owners just say--"Okay, guys, Just take your time and build a few nice swords." ..........McM
View user's profile Send private message
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 8:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
With a PoB of over 7"...that's a case of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome waiting to happen. In other words, way blade heavy.


The POB on Albion's Saint Maurice of Turin is 9 inches. Happy So the 7 inches here might seem less extreme by comparison. Happy

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Peter Messent




Location: Texas
Joined: 03 Jan 2009

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 8:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Greg Ballantyne wrote:
While Deepeeka's products may have improved, they still have a long way to go to reach any level of ability to accurately reproduce an historical specimen.........


If/when they do, they will no longer be $130.

Figured I'd chime in since I have the triple lobed godfred - it's a solidly constructed sword with a very sturdy tang. There are a few oddities to it, and quite a few historical inaccuracies, but hey - I've seen hand-forged swords going for 4 times the price with the same inaccuracies, so I'm not going to gripe for $130. The only things that bother me are the things that could easily be fixed - longer fuller for example. Anyways, heres what I thought of and did with mine:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,294

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 8:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad....You're right. It's early, and I had a long night. Kinda got it a little backwards......My bad. Laughing Out Loud ........McM
View user's profile Send private message
Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 393

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark, while I don't know much about this particular sword, there were some older deepeeka swords where the guard and pommel are held in place by glue despite the peen. It would probably make a good project sword but it will take a lot work. And I could be wrong, deepeeka may have changed over time, like Peter's Viking sword.

That scabbard definitely look nice.
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,294

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Edward.....There are many good makers(Hanwei, Cold Steel, Windlass, etc.) that use epoxy glue on their sword models. It's an aid to 'firm up' the grip and fill in any small gaps in the hilt between the guard and pommel. I suspect that even ancient age sword makers used a form of resin or pitch to bind the grips and keep everything tight. Big Grin ........McM
View user's profile Send private message
Mark Moore




Location: East backwoods-assed Texas
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Likes: 6 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 2,294

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Case in point....Look at the fairly new Kris Cutlery Seax. It's glued into the grip and pinned through the tang with a bamboo pin. You'd be hard pressed to remove that blade from the handle without a chisel and hammer.........McM
View user's profile Send private message
Peter Messent




Location: Texas
Joined: 03 Jan 2009

Posts: 226

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark Moore wrote:
I suspect that even ancient age sword makers used a form of resin or pitch to bind the grips and keep everything tight. Big Grin ........McM

Funny you should mention that - I seem to recall reading that some of the hollow pommels on Viking age swords (I'm thinking type H, but my memory's garbage) had no means to rivet to the upper guard, and instead, the upper guard had a long u-shaped rivet that was presumably glued inside the hollow pommel. Can't recall if it was a fact or a theory, but interesting nonetheless. If fact, then at least some pommels were quite literally glued on - albeit, with mechanical assistance.

Resin and charcoal/animal fat can be a mighty strong glue!
View user's profile Send private message
Edward Lee




Location: New York
Joined: 05 Jul 2013

Posts: 393

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mark, that's good to know. I didn't know they used epoxy to hold pieces in place. I though it's only a method used to mass produce swords. Does the glued components loosen up over time or does it have to be constantly used?
View user's profile Send private message
Robin Smith




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Likes: 4 pages
Reading list: 17 books

Posts: 746

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter Messent wrote:
Mark Moore wrote:
I suspect that even ancient age sword makers used a form of resin or pitch to bind the grips and keep everything tight. Big Grin ........McM

Funny you should mention that - I seem to recall reading that some of the hollow pommels on Viking age swords (I'm thinking type H, but my memory's garbage) had no means to rivet to the upper guard, and instead, the upper guard had a long u-shaped rivet that was presumably glued inside the hollow pommel. Can't recall if it was a fact or a theory, but interesting nonetheless. If fact, then at least some pommels were quite literally glued on - albeit, with mechanical assistance.

Resin and charcoal/animal fat can be a mighty strong glue!

The U-Rivets were generally brazed (welded with a copper-alloy) into the pommel.

http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?s=8...ntry180027

I'm not sure where that whole idea that they were glued in came from, but analysis of hollow pommels frequently shows the remains of the copper-alloy used in the brazing.

A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Patrick Kelly




Location: Wichita, Kansas
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Reading list: 42 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 5,739

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robin Smith wrote:
I'm not sure where that whole idea that they were glued in came from, but analysis of hollow pommels frequently shows the remains of the copper-alloy used in the brazing.


Peter Johnsson has mentioned observing pitch and hide glue being used as part of the securement proccess.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Robin Smith




Location: Louisiana
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Likes: 4 pages
Reading list: 17 books

Posts: 746

PostPosted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Patrick Kelly wrote:
Robin Smith wrote:
I'm not sure where that whole idea that they were glued in came from, but analysis of hollow pommels frequently shows the remains of the copper-alloy used in the brazing.


Peter Johnsson has mentioned observing pitch and hide glue being used as part of the securement proccess.
I am not one to challenge Peter's expertise, so I have asked Peter via PM for his most recent thinking on this issue. I do know that in 2007 he said:

"Yes, that is correct.

My guess is that some kind of pitch or resin was used in combination with these "staples", filling the inside of the pommel cap and upper guard.
This material would have melted away in fire burials and could also have been of organic nature and rotted away, perhaps. I know of no traces of such material surviving in a hilt today. It just seems like a logical, practical and simple solution.
"

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=95435

This sounds like it was being put it forth as only a possible theory..

It's worth noting that statement was made before Jeff Pringle demonstrated the use of brazing of these U-rivets in an example he was working on. In addition to Jeff's discovery, there are examples in Geibig's work that show X-Ray evidence of brazing, and other examples in academic/archeological/metallographic publications that show examples with copper-alloy or tin remains of brazing.

This is not to say that brazing was always used in every case, but there is atleast surviving evidence of its use. It seems that there is no actual physical evidence of surviving pitch or glue attachment, and that was simply a theory that was put forth (albeit by a highly respected source).

(sorry for the sidetrack OP)

A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Deepeeka sword of Saint Maurice...new
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2024 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum