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Mark Moore
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 Posted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 7:52 pm Post subject: Deepeeka sword of Saint Maurice...new |
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Just saw this in the new additions section at KOA. Don't really know how to post a link or a pic, but I bet someone out there does. I just thought this looked like a good, cheap beater...and not a half bad looking one either. A far cry from the original, but it looks like it could take a lickin'.......Go to KOA and take a look. Thoughts?.........McM
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Edward Lee
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| Posted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure their swords has a glued pommel.
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Ian Hutchison
Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 626
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| Posted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Mark,
The new Deepeekas (of which the St. Maurice is one) look like they are pretty good for the money, especially if you want to consider them projects/customize them. There have been a couple of reviews on the new swords here and on SBG but not on the St. Maurice itself (I don't believe anyway). A couple of Deepeeka reps were here a few months ago and they had some encouraging things to say about the direction they want to head and addressed concerns.
Anyway, I mean to pick some of them up if I have the money and remember.
'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Mark Moore
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| Posted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Edward.......The pommel is peened. Obvious by the photos. Ian..........Thanks. I've read the threads here on the Armoury. It indeed looks like Deepeeka is trying to up their game. I've never owned one, but have seen several models that did look like good swords for ...surgery.  .......McM
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Luka Borscak
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| Posted: Thu 07 Nov, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Their new swords do look quite good, the dimensions aren't even close to the originals they are "replicating" but for a reenactor who want's a relatively authentic looking sword that can take beating and is cheap, they are almost ideal...
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J. Hargis
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J.D. Crawford
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Greg Ballantyne
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| Posted: Fri 08 Nov, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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While Deepeeka's products may have improved, they still have a long way to go to reach any level of ability to accurately reproduce an historical specimen.........
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Mark Moore
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 7:23 am Post subject: |
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I totally agree, Greg. On this particular sword, the guard and pommel are passable(loosely), but the blade needs refinement. With a PoB of over 7"...that's a case of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome waiting to happen. In other words, way blade heavy. I can imagine with a thinned out blade and a nice wire wrapped grip, this could be a nice looking sword. I think the craftsmen at Deepeeka are not so much lacking in ability, as they are being restricted in them to keep cost down and quicken production time. I'd love to see the Deepeeka owners just say--"Okay, guys, Just take your time and build a few nice swords." ..........McM
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Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Mark Moore wrote: | | With a PoB of over 7"...that's a case of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome waiting to happen. In other words, way blade heavy. |
The POB on Albion's Saint Maurice of Turin is 9 inches.  So the 7 inches here might seem less extreme by comparison.
ChadA
http://chadarnow.com/
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Peter Messent
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Greg Ballantyne wrote: | | While Deepeeka's products may have improved, they still have a long way to go to reach any level of ability to accurately reproduce an historical specimen......... |
If/when they do, they will no longer be $130.
Figured I'd chime in since I have the triple lobed godfred - it's a solidly constructed sword with a very sturdy tang. There are a few oddities to it, and quite a few historical inaccuracies, but hey - I've seen hand-forged swords going for 4 times the price with the same inaccuracies, so I'm not going to gripe for $130. The only things that bother me are the things that could easily be fixed - longer fuller for example. Anyways, heres what I thought of and did with mine:
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...highlight=
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Mark Moore
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Chad....You're right. It's early, and I had a long night. Kinda got it a little backwards......My bad.  ........McM
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Edward Lee
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 8:52 am Post subject: |
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Mark, while I don't know much about this particular sword, there were some older deepeeka swords where the guard and pommel are held in place by glue despite the peen. It would probably make a good project sword but it will take a lot work. And I could be wrong, deepeeka may have changed over time, like Peter's Viking sword.
That scabbard definitely look nice.
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Mark Moore
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Edward.....There are many good makers(Hanwei, Cold Steel, Windlass, etc.) that use epoxy glue on their sword models. It's an aid to 'firm up' the grip and fill in any small gaps in the hilt between the guard and pommel. I suspect that even ancient age sword makers used a form of resin or pitch to bind the grips and keep everything tight.  ........McM
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Mark Moore
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Case in point....Look at the fairly new Kris Cutlery Seax. It's glued into the grip and pinned through the tang with a bamboo pin. You'd be hard pressed to remove that blade from the handle without a chisel and hammer.........McM
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Peter Messent
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Moore wrote: | | I suspect that even ancient age sword makers used a form of resin or pitch to bind the grips and keep everything tight. ........McM |
Funny you should mention that - I seem to recall reading that some of the hollow pommels on Viking age swords (I'm thinking type H, but my memory's garbage) had no means to rivet to the upper guard, and instead, the upper guard had a long u-shaped rivet that was presumably glued inside the hollow pommel. Can't recall if it was a fact or a theory, but interesting nonetheless. If fact, then at least some pommels were quite literally glued on - albeit, with mechanical assistance.
Resin and charcoal/animal fat can be a mighty strong glue!
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Edward Lee
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Mark, that's good to know. I didn't know they used epoxy to hold pieces in place. I though it's only a method used to mass produce swords. Does the glued components loosen up over time or does it have to be constantly used?
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Robin Smith
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Peter Messent wrote: | | Mark Moore wrote: | | I suspect that even ancient age sword makers used a form of resin or pitch to bind the grips and keep everything tight. ........McM |
Funny you should mention that - I seem to recall reading that some of the hollow pommels on Viking age swords (I'm thinking type H, but my memory's garbage) had no means to rivet to the upper guard, and instead, the upper guard had a long u-shaped rivet that was presumably glued inside the hollow pommel. Can't recall if it was a fact or a theory, but interesting nonetheless. If fact, then at least some pommels were quite literally glued on - albeit, with mechanical assistance.
Resin and charcoal/animal fat can be a mighty strong glue! |
The U-Rivets were generally brazed (welded with a copper-alloy) into the pommel.
http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?s=8...ntry180027
I'm not sure where that whole idea that they were glued in came from, but analysis of hollow pommels frequently shows the remains of the copper-alloy used in the brazing.
A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Robin Smith wrote: | | I'm not sure where that whole idea that they were glued in came from, but analysis of hollow pommels frequently shows the remains of the copper-alloy used in the brazing. |
Peter Johnsson has mentioned observing pitch and hide glue being used as part of the securement proccess.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Robin Smith
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| Posted: Sat 09 Nov, 2013 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Patrick Kelly wrote: | | Robin Smith wrote: | | I'm not sure where that whole idea that they were glued in came from, but analysis of hollow pommels frequently shows the remains of the copper-alloy used in the brazing. |
Peter Johnsson has mentioned observing pitch and hide glue being used as part of the securement proccess. |
I am not one to challenge Peter's expertise, so I have asked Peter via PM for his most recent thinking on this issue. I do know that in 2007 he said:
"Yes, that is correct.
My guess is that some kind of pitch or resin was used in combination with these "staples", filling the inside of the pommel cap and upper guard.
This material would have melted away in fire burials and could also have been of organic nature and rotted away, perhaps. I know of no traces of such material surviving in a hilt today. It just seems like a logical, practical and simple solution."
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=95435
This sounds like it was being put it forth as only a possible theory..
It's worth noting that statement was made before Jeff Pringle demonstrated the use of brazing of these U-rivets in an example he was working on. In addition to Jeff's discovery, there are examples in Geibig's work that show X-Ray evidence of brazing, and other examples in academic/archeological/metallographic publications that show examples with copper-alloy or tin remains of brazing.
This is not to say that brazing was always used in every case, but there is atleast surviving evidence of its use. It seems that there is no actual physical evidence of surviving pitch or glue attachment, and that was simply a theory that was put forth (albeit by a highly respected source).
(sorry for the sidetrack OP)
A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine
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This is a standard topic
