Painted sword pommels -- myArmoury.com

Julien M · Posted: Mon 16 May, 2011 12:14 pm Post subject: Painted sword pommels

I'd like to gather some pictures of painted ornementation on sword pommels (and guards). What kind of paint was actually used, enamel?

This sword below (it is currently at the musee de cluny in Paris during the exposition dedicated to the sword). I have seen it on the forum before, but I can't recall where. A better shot or even a close shot would be great. Other examples would be awesome.

Thanks in advance.

J

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

I've shown this before but here are some images of it:

"The Sword of Saint George"

Click photos for full-sized versions

Julien M · Posted: Tue 17 May, 2011 1:40 am Post subject:

fantastic pictures. Thx for taking the time to re upload them here Nathan.

I wonder about the details of this pommel. Even if the picture close up exceeds my expectation it can't beat direct examination (damn, I will have to go to the paris expo after all), it is still hard to figure out if:

the enamel is applied directly on the metal, or if there is a layer of glass/crystal underneath (I mean in order to obtain this translucent quality you have to have a transparent medium do you?)

is the arch gothic border actually raised from the bottom of the pommel (it would make sense if there is a "lense" of glass crystal underneath) or simply painted on the bottom of the pommel.

I have looked at cold enamel tutorials and it still seems quiet complicated in the sense that control of the substance seems to be an issue (what I've seen was about simply pouring the enamel in a recessed area).

Can one paint enamel? And in which case do you think model enamel paint would produce a convincing effect? Did anyone tried? (I've seen heraldic devices painted on some deltin pommels already but not something of that scale).

JE Sarge · Industry Professional

Looks like cloisonne to me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloisonn%C3%A9

It's both an ancient and preferred method for doing exactly what you are describing. There is even some from Sutton Hoo:

http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highligh...page=20819

The above example is of course, elaborate - with glass inlays and detailed wire-work. However, the simplest form would be etching out the metal and simply painting the recesses with enamel - such as appears in the photo which Nathan posted or the A&A Edward III below. Happy

Photo intellectual property of Kult of Athena and Arms & Armor of Minnesota.

Johan S. Moen · Posted: Wed 18 May, 2011 12:23 am Post subject:

Julien M · Posted: Wed 18 May, 2011 1:47 am Post subject:

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your input, that led me to refine my search and I found this great video made by vanessa Richi, professionnal "emailleuse" chez Jean Richard (luxury watches), demonstrating cloisonné enamel. It's in french but subbed in english. Spendid and very informative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbTgrYWwxp8

edit: one thing is still bugging me. She says that the watchmaker has to use extreme caution when mounting the enamel background on the watch, as it is very fragile. It seems unlikely that it might be used on a sword pommel...

Johan S. Moen · Posted: Wed 18 May, 2011 11:36 am Post subject:

The enamel background for the watch is fairly thin stuff, so you'd have to be careful, if you bend it or hit it the enamel would probably come off. A sword pommel can dissipate quite a bit more force and it doesn't deform easily, so it shouldn't be a problem. That being said, if you hit it with a hammer you'd probably have to redo the work...it's just glass after all.

EDIT: To add one more tidbit; the earlier-mentioned Sutton Hoo sword is not enamelled. It is cloisonne, but with cut garnets set in rather than enamel.

Johan Schubert Moen

Mike Capanelli · Posted: Mon 10 Jun, 2013 11:12 am Post subject:

I know I'm reviving an old thread here, but does anyone have any other pictures of painted pommels? I'm trying to find some artwork to paint on my Durer.

Mart Shearer · Posted: Mon 10 Jun, 2013 11:25 am Post subject:

The Met's got the pommel of Peter of Dreux, believed to have been lost at al-Mansourah.
http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/search-t...s/40005997

Mart Shearer · Posted: Fri 12 Jul, 2013 2:04 am Post subject:

And a 13th century dagger pommel, also at the Met;
http://www.metmuseum.org/collections/search-t...&img=1

Mark Shier · Industry Professional

All of those look like glass enamel, not paint.
Mark

Mart Shearer · Posted: Sun 09 Nov, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject:

A worthwhile film from the V&A explaining the technique of champlevé enameling.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/c/champ...1100-1250/

I don't understand how they could enamel both sides of a pommel at the same time without the enameling running. Are these pommels constructed of multiple plates, or is this a type of "sealing-wax" enameling, where glass panes or rods were only softened before application instead of using powdered glass?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champlev%C3%A9

James A D · Posted: Mon 10 Nov, 2014 5:20 am Post subject:

Mart Shearer · Posted: Mon 10 Nov, 2014 9:31 am Post subject:

The Dreux Window at Chartres Cathedral
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...dral01.jpg

And the window showing Peter dropping his sword after being wounded at the Battle of Mansourah in 1250, commonly known as the "Mauclerc" window. Peter's nickname was given due to his bad intent towards the clergy in Britanny, so it was undoubtedly considered a just reward to show his defeat in a church window. The pommel was discovered in a Damascus market.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&...9006,d.aWw

Mart Shearer · Posted: Sun 16 Nov, 2014 9:17 pm Post subject:

https://www.academia.edu/8267728/Sword_and_Dagger_Pommels_Associated_with_the_Crusades

Two articles with pictures and technical analysis of Crusader-era enameled pommels. It seems these are true champlevé enamel, rather than paint, but fails to answer how enamel can be applied to both sides of the pommel without it running during firing.

Leo Todeschini · Industry Professional

Mart Shearer wrote