Rainguard Construction -- myArmoury.com

Roland Warzecha · Posted: Fri 22 Mar, 2013 4:47 am Post subject:

@ Sean:
Thank you Sir. I have always admired your work, so I take this as a big compliment.

@ Mikko:
I cannot answer all of your questions, however, I can respond to a few:

First of all let me say that it is extremely difficult to judge the original quality of historical leather pieces. If traditionally tanned leather is not maintained, it shrinks and becomes brittle. So the original thickness and rigidity is close to impossible to evaluate, even with some pieces having survived the centuries quite well.

I don't know about any lining, however, I have seen an example of the tubular type in the Hofjagd- und Rüstkammer Museum in Vienna that has fine stitching running along the bottom edge. So it may eventually consist of two layers or the stitching was added to make the chape mouth stiffer and prevent it from widening.
With the tubular type having to go over the scabbard mouth, we can assume that it was usually fairly stiff. Otherwise it would have been a pain to sheath the sword after use.

With the flap type it is harder to say but I cannot recall a depiction where the flap folds back onto the sword hand when the blade is being lifted.

The tiny flap extension of the grip leather, which is not always depicted in art and, IIRC, does not appear with all extant examples, does not necessarily have to be stitched to the crossguard chape. Peter Johnsson told me that when he examined the Munich sword, he noticed that this miniature flap was not in any way attached to the crossguard leather. What looks like stitching in the photos of that sword is just very fine tooling. This is why I did not stitch the grip extension to the chape on my Albion Squire.

Hope this helps.

All the best,
Roland

Mikko Kuusirati · Posted: Fri 22 Mar, 2013 9:09 am Post subject:

That does help, in fact. Thank you!

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 22 Mar, 2013 10:10 am Post subject:

I dimly recall Peter Johnsson saying something about some chappes having an inner layer of untanned leather that would be quite hard when dry. I think there was something about that in the Ljubljana thread (IMO, the greatest loss in the recent myArmoury.com catastrophe).

The single layer of top grain, veg-tan leather I've used for my chappes was stiff enough to hold its shape and present no problems inserting the sword into the scabbard.

I'm glad to know that not all chappes were stitched to the grip extension. That's a pain to do.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 22 Mar, 2013 10:21 am Post subject:

FWIW, here are some of the chappe images from the late, great Ljubljana thread.

I don't understand the need for construction in quarters rather than as a single piece (unless the chappe replaces a damaged original). I make mine like a tunic. What are your thoughts on that?

J.W. Peeters · Posted: Sat 23 Mar, 2013 2:37 pm Post subject:

Roland Warzecha · Posted: Sat 23 Mar, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject:

Roland Warzecha · Posted: Sat 23 Mar, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject:

Dear Mr. Peeters,

I am fully aware of the fact that crossguard leathers were not a feature exclusive to the common soldier's sword only. I am offering a thesis for the original purpose and the reason why it evolved in the early 14th century. That any functional device might become a fashion item and would be decorated to the taste and budget of the wearer is out of the question.

Sweat is an issue as I can attest to from years of training experience.

And a good scabbard serves its purpose of protecting the blade even in rain, regardless of the angle it hangs from your hip.
Cheers,
Roland

Mikko Kuusirati · Posted: Sun 24 Mar, 2013 2:08 am Post subject:

Arek Przybylok · Posted: Thu 28 Mar, 2013 8:25 am Post subject:

I have small question. Have you seen rainguards with langemesser/bauernwehr?

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 28 Mar, 2013 8:59 am Post subject:

Arek Przybylok · Posted: Thu 28 Mar, 2013 11:57 am Post subject:

Oh, very big toy Happy

Maybe you know something smaller? Normal, typical one-hand messer.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 28 Mar, 2013 12:44 pm Post subject:

J.W. Peeters · Posted: Thu 28 Mar, 2013 1:23 pm Post subject:

Sean posted this pic before in this thread:

The uhm, half-circle stroke is attached over the tubular part, aswell as over the lowest part of the grip leather it seems..

Can one simply glue a leather piece on top of the grip leather like that?
Or would it too easely come off due to friction when handling the sword..?
(As I think to have only seen you guys either using a longer grip leather, or work the rain guard leather under the lowest riser sorta..)

Kind regards,
JW

Bart Jongsma · Posted: Sat 30 Mar, 2013 5:08 pm Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Sun 31 Mar, 2013 5:05 pm Post subject:

Roland Warzecha · Posted: Mon 01 Apr, 2013 3:18 am Post subject:

Roland Warzecha · Posted: Mon 01 Apr, 2013 3:28 am Post subject:

J.W. Peeters · Posted: Mon 01 Apr, 2013 5:37 am Post subject:

Thank you for answering, Roland Happy

Regards,
JW

Wolfgang Armbruster · Posted: Mon 01 Apr, 2013 6:45 am Post subject:

There are some strange "rainguards" out there for sure. These are from the Hofjagd and Rüstkammer in Vienna, Austria.

Swords with the entire hilt covered in leather - crossguard, grip, pommel and a small part of the blade

an interesting Panzerstecher / estoc with a tubular rainguard made from metal.