[Patrick Jones]

Salutations gentlefolk!

At last, I'm the proud possesor of a Scottish baskethilt (thank you Chris Goerner! ), and it's Armourclass' "Glasgow" pattern. What I need is a reference to a source that can explain what the "Glasgow" pattern is. You know, what characteristics of this pattern of hilt define it as the "Glasgow" hilt style, and not some other hilt pattern. I appreciate any info you can throw at me.

Cheers!

Pat

[William Goodwin]

Patrick,

Mac is the man you need to ask. I believe that the "Glasgow" hilt is defined as having flat ribbon bars as oppossed to the rounded bars of say a "Stirling" hilt. these names derive from where the hilts were original made also.

I only got to handle your sword once while still in Chris' possession, but it left one heck of an impression.....hey...I made a rhyme......

Cheers,
Bill

[Gordon Clark]

[Allen W]

Not to highjack the topic much further but in response to Gordon's post I think we can look to nordic influences in the development of the Scottish medieval sword and two-handed claymore. There is a late Viking era sword from Norway with a small five-lobed pommel similar to Albion's Caithness with a long guard curving towards the blade in a deep "U". Del Tin, MRL, and Raven Armoury have all made reproductions of this sword which I believe either inspired or co-evolved with the Scottish medieval sword and its forward swept guard.

Similarly many Claymores can be seen as simply great swords or war swords with exceptionally long grips. The Svante sword bears similar proportions and the virtual museum at Bjorn's site have similar examples of long hilted though otherwise conventional war swords from Sweden and Norway. These when combined with the fact that Scotland was ruled by Norway from about the eleventh to mid-thirteenth centuries and remained within its sphere of influence for some time both before and after suggest a strong cross cultural influence and in my mind lend credibility to the tales of particularly large swords being wielded by William Wallace and Robert the Bruce (I picture these as being of exceptional overall length but of normal blade length for a war sword).

Regarding Highland basket-hilts,though I haven't studied them in any depth, they appear to be logical evolutions of the classic English/Lowland hilts which, like morts, seem rather distinct from their continental equivalents.

[Thomas McDonald]

The two famous "schools" of Scottish baskethilt making were Glasgow and Stirling.

The Glasgow baskets look has been defined as that of the work of John Simpson Sr.
(admitted freeman of the Incorporation of Hammerman of Glasgow in 1683), his son John Jr. (1711) , Thomas Gemmill (1716),
Robert Craig (1720), etc!

Simpson's baskets were noted for their wide flat bars (usually fluted) elaborately decorated ,scalloped & pierced .

Here is an example of a John Simpson basket ....


* Photo: Park Lane Arms Fair catalogue

Stirling baskethilts, as William noted, were characterized by the narrower rounded bars !
Confusion starts, though, when we see examples of Stirling made hilts in the Glasgow style, and vise-vera !

John Allan Sr. (1711), the famous Stirling hammerman, was booked as a Journeyman to Simpson, in Glasgow, in 1702 .
Allan, having learned these design stylings, incorporated much of them into his work, and most certainly taught his famous son Walter (1732) how to use them as well !

Here is an example of the Stirling 'round bar' style, by John Allan Sr. .....


* Photo: Park Lane Arms Fair catalogue

Next is an example of a Stirling made basket which incorporates the "Glasgow" design features into it.
This is by Walter Allan of Stirling !


*Photo: Ron Luciano

Later Regimental 'sheet steel' baskets ( by Drury & Jefferies ,of England) were considered to be in the Glasgow style, but they were a far cry from that glorious look made famous by John Simpson & Co. !

Mac

[E.B. Erickson]

For a general timeline and discussion for Scots baskets, see p.175-182 in Oakeshott's "European Weapons and Armour". If this is supplemented with Blair's article on the early English baskethilts in "Scottish Weapons and Fortifications", you'll have a pretty good picture of the development of these hilt types.

As an aside, there has been some emerging evidence that may show the Glasgow hilt style may have been fully developed by about the middle of the 1600s. Thomas MacDonald has the complete article that outlines this evidence, and it's entitled "Observations on the Dating of Scottish Basket Hilted Swords", by C.R. Rolland. Usually the Glasgow style is dated in the early-mid 1700s, but some additonal data for an earlier date is the first basket pictured in "Culloden The Sword and the Sorrows", which is a Glasgow basket dated ca.1690.

--ElJay

[Thomas McDonald]

If anyone is interested in reading the article Eljay mentioned just drop me an e-mail, mac@myArmoury.com, and I will send it on to you ! ( there are 6 pages, so expect 6 seperate file attachments).

Slàinte, Mac

[Henrik Bjoern Boegh]

Where does the Edinburgh hilts end up in the midst of all this..?

Cheers,
Henrik

[Patrick Jones]

Thanks, gentlemen! Now I have a better idea of what constitutes the 'Glasgow' pattern. As always, you folk are a trove of knowledge!

[Thomas McDonald]

[E.B. Erickson]

Hello Henrik,
Awhile back a month or so Chris Goerner started a thread on the Edinburgh basket style. Try it in the search engine or just flip back through the pages of this section of myArmoury.

--ElJay

[Thomas McDonald]

Here is a link to the thread Eljay mentioned ! Mac
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...askethilts