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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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 Posted: Sun 14 Nov, 2004 9:21 am Post subject: Old Firearms |
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Hi Patrick
As I know your luv of the firearm, I snapped these pic's at Heritage Museum, Lexington, Ma. (my old hometown) !
They have an exhibition called "The Western Pursuit of the American Dream" :
Selections from the Collection of Kenneth W. Rendell . http://www.monh.org/
I did get scolded for taking pictures, as I guess there was a sign posted someplace that said not to ?, but I managed to capture the good stuff before they lowered the boom ! * I did give them my reverse lecture about people with money owning pieces of history, etc., and how they really belong to the people , blah, blah, blah * (which he agreed with , but had to enforce the owners wishes ;-)
Anyway .... here ya go ! Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Sun 14 Nov, 2004 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for thinking of me Mac!
Leave it to a rebellious Scot to flaunt the rules 
I particularly like the longrifle. I love those fancy patchboxes.
And who doesn't love the Colt SAA ? (all real men do *g*) Mine's prettier 
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Michael G. Myers
Location: El Paso, Texas Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Sun 14 Nov, 2004 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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'Not Patrick Kelly, but my thanks for taking the time.
The Richards-Mason conversion was especially appreciated (with or without its pedigree).
Michael
"In the fight between you and the world, back the world." - Kafka
"Neither flesh, nor fowl, nor good red-herring..."
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Sun 14 Nov, 2004 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed, nice little conversion Colt, and nice SAA too. I like the Long Rifle, but I have to say the Long Land Pattern Bess is hottest of the bunch.
Patrick: Ha! My SAA 's are better than THAT too! LOL!!! ;o) One of these days when we get into an insane SAA thread, I'll post some pics... someday, but not today.
Thanks for posting those Mac, you have a good eye for getting good snapshots of "The Cool Stuff"! BTW, do they still have that nifty little Snaphaunce/English-lock belt pistol on display at the Plymouth museum? (Since you're in that neck of the woods...)
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Adam Lloyd
Location: Chicago, IL Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 12:29 am Post subject: |
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now this stuff i can really get into!
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Alina Boyden
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| Posted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Colt SAA? The Schofield was far superior. Go S&W.
Then again maybe I'm not a "real man" 
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Alina; I think lot of the "superiority" of the Colt is in the "feel" of it. It fits and handles "right", just like some swords feel better in the hand than others. The Schofield is, in my opinion, the best "feeling" of the Smiths... ALL of the Smiths, in fact, even those made today. Mechanically the Schofield is in some ways superior too, and a LOT faster to reload. But the Colt is a lot faster to "unload", as it were. Both are well designed and well made weapons of war, efficient and effective.
I believe that one of the reasons that Colt was so popular a maker was that he was there "the fustest with the mostest", and pretty much set the standards, too. For someone who grew up shooting earlier Colt products, the Smith&Wessons just don't feel "right". It's Fords and Chevy's (Uh oh, I see a whole new argument going on here...) so if you started with one, you generally prefer it to the other on purely emotional grounds. But I'm a confirmed Colt man, so it's mostly just my opinion.
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
Last edited by Gordon Frye on Thu 18 Nov, 2004 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thomas McDonald
myArmoury Alumni
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| Posted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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One more shot of Jesse's Colt ..... ( the lighting was terrible for picture taking, so please forgive the shadows )
Mac
'Gott Bewahr Die Oprechte Schotten'
XX ANDRIA XX FARARA XX
Mac's PictureTrail
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Douglas G.
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| Posted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going to go Schofield too. Back in the day when all my pards were packing Fanner 50's
I was always the contrarian who had a Hubley '51 Navy. (Except for the two gun Shootin' Shell
rig I got from the Grands) Then Clint iced it for me forever with the saloon scene in Unforgiven.
House Shmouse, Little Bill!
Best,
Doug G.
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Alina Boyden
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| Posted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Gordon Frye wrote: | Alina; I think lot of the "superiority" of the Colt is in the "feel" of it. It fits and handles "right", just like some swords feel better in the hand than others. The Schofield is, in my opinion, the best "feeling" of the Smiths... ALL of the Smiths, in fact, even those made today. Mechanically the Schofield is in some ways superior too, and a LOT faster to reload. But the Colt is a lot faster to "unload", as it were. Both are well designed and well made weapons of war, efficient and effective.
I believe that one of the reasons that Colt was so popular a maker was that he was there "the fustest with the mostest", and pretty much set the standards, too. For someone who grew up shooting earlier Colt products, the Smith&Wessons just don't feel "right". It's Fords and Chevy's (Uh oh, I see a whole new argument going on here...) so if you started with one, you generally prefer it to the other on purely emotional grounds. But I'm a confirmed Colt man, so it's mostly just my opinion.
Gordon |
So does that mean I'm a real man after all?
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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That there's a question I wouldn't touch with an 18-foot pike!  To quote the Roman Tribune: Run away, Run away!
And here I thought I was opening a can of worms with the Ford/Chevy connection... Lord, it seems I can get into trouble with the least effort, doesn't it?
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Thu 18 Nov, 2004 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Alina Boyden wrote: | Colt SAA? The Schofield was far superior. Go S&W.
Then again maybe I'm not a "real man" |
Not really. That's in relation to the Colt v. S&W debate not your manhood 
I own both and I think they're both great guns with a lot of character. The one advantage of the Colt, the only one IMHO, is the simplicity of it's design. It's also an inherently stronger design. The Colt can be made to fire with almost every internal part broken (although if you're in that kind of predicament I think you have bigger concerns). By virtue of it's design the S&W is a more complex and fragile weapon. Not a big concern to 21st century hobbyists but a valid one on the American frontier of the 19th century. Of course debating which antique pistol is better is almost as ridiculous as debating over sword types. They're cool and that's enough
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Michael G. Myers
Location: El Paso, Texas Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Fri 19 Nov, 2004 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| Gordon Frye wrote: | ...For someone who grew up shooting earlier Colt products, the Smith&Wessons just don't feel "right". It's Fords and Chevy's (Uh oh, I see a whole new argument going on here...
Gordon |
And, we'd best not mention the Remington clique. Old time Buick fanciers? 
We're in the same camp with regard to the subjective feel of the SAA and clones vs the S&W models, Gordon. I have a Uberti that I picked up (before the S&W production runs, just as well given their price) with the thought of finding a mate for it and using them for CAS shoots, but simply couldn't bring myself to put in the time necessary for the switch. Granted, SASS rules tend to negate the reloading advantage of the S&W and, it's true, some of the mounted guys I've watched dearly love the S&W. For the me the grip angle/hammer reach/balance was simply...well...alien.
When the need for style points or just something different strikes, I'll stick with the Remingtons/Remington conversions and the various Colt conversions (Richards or true R-M 'conversions', though Jesse's R-M factory job in Mac's pic looks great). And that, even with the attendant headaches they sometimes bring.
'Thinking about Patrick Kelly's comment on hobbyists seems a useful reminder, though. I doubt, I'd choose any of the rounds fired out of the various Colt conversions over either the Schofield or Russian rounds. But then, as he stated, my bias reflects my modest requirements and the only thing at stake is bragging rights over a cleanly shot match. Though, honestly, that comes rarely enough no matter what I'm using that weekend.
Yours,
Mike
"In the fight between you and the world, back the world." - Kafka
"Neither flesh, nor fowl, nor good red-herring..."
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Michael G. Myers
Location: El Paso, Texas Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Fri 19 Nov, 2004 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| Douglas G. wrote: | I'm going to go Schofield too. Back in the day when all my pards were packing Fanner 50's
I was always the contrarian who had a Hubley '51 Navy. (Except for the two gun Shootin' Shell
rig I got from the Grands) Then Clint iced it for me forever with the saloon scene in Unforgiven.
House Shmouse, Little Bill!
Best,
Doug G. |
Fanner 50's and Hubley Navies! Beautiful!
This brought a genuine smile to my face, Doug. My thanks.
Yours,
Cheyenne Body
"In the fight between you and the world, back the world." - Kafka
"Neither flesh, nor fowl, nor good red-herring..."
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Michael G. Myers
Location: El Paso, Texas Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 112
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| Posted: Fri 19 Nov, 2004 5:13 am Post subject: Choices, choices... |
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A truly meager sampling of the different models and designs of cartridge tools potentially available to the bold soul seeking escape from Colt SAA domination, ca. 1868-1883. These examples are all well safe in the era of proprietary cartridges, but then, you wouldn't expect flair AND practicality, would you? You'll reload your casings anyway, so bring a hammer.
Michael
 Attachment: 37.97 KB
Remington New Army conversion, .38 Rimfire
Attachment: 37.46 KB
Tranter, .50 (English)
Attachment: 39.18 KB
Thomas Self-Extractor, .450 (English)
Attachment: 49.03 KB
German Reichsrevolver, 10.3mm
Attachment: 39.88 KB
Merwin-Hulbert
Attachment: 42.73 KB
Mod. 1873 French Ordnance Revolver, 11.4mm F.O.R.
Attachment: 37.83 KB
Pryse, .450 (English)
Attachment: 51.71 KB
A breathtaking, original Remington NA conversion with full engraving and loading gate
"In the fight between you and the world, back the world." - Kafka
"Neither flesh, nor fowl, nor good red-herring..."
Last edited by Michael G. Myers on Sat 20 Nov, 2004 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Fri 19 Nov, 2004 8:33 am Post subject: |
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EEEK! Hubley's and Fanner Fifty's!!!! Man, I haven't thought of THOSE in a while... I found a great photo of me (on horseback of course) packin' my '51 Navy in a full-flap holster back in, oh, '61 or '62... that's of course NINETEEN sixty-one or two, guys! Gotta love the saddle-shoes and argyle socks, but at least I was packin' iron.
Gotta love those old black-powder cartridge revolvers. I've always preferred my Colts, but I've enjoyed most of the cool pistols you showed, Michael. Wonderful old guns, and a real challenge to feed (at least they sure were 25 years ago when I was really into that stuff... amazing what you can convert .44 Special into! And yes, bring a hammer, LOL!) Of course I love the cap-and-ball stuff too, though cartridges are soooo much easier on the range. But later on, all you have to do is clean the gun, no nasty brass to clean up! I have to admit I've gotten tired of cleaning blackpowder-scooged brass... I finally have sold off most of my big single-shot rifles for that reason and gone back to my paper-cartridge Sharps. Same amount of work getting to the range, but a LOT less afterwards!
Anyway, GREAT thread!
Cheers,
Gordon
Attachment: 29.89 KB
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Patrick Kelly
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| Posted: Fri 19 Nov, 2004 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for those pics Michael. Some of the less well known pistols are really fascinating in their design elements. Thank goodness Hollywood has gotten away from arming everyone with a Colt SAA and a '73 Winchester!
I have to agree with Gordon on the BP cartridge issue. A lot of fun but a real hassle to clean. I still remember the first time I fired a .45 Colt round loaded with 35-40 grains of black powder. Man, that was a show! I've owned a couple of conversions that were really neat. Those kinds of firearms were widely used on the frontier for a long time, it's a shame they've usually been under represented in film and books.
"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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Douglas G.
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| Posted: Fri 19 Nov, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Gordon!
Looks like you kept an orderly range there, Deputy. My favorite holster for the Hubley was a narrow taper
split cow hide lashed with raw hide strips, worn cross draw of course. This set up earned a little envy, but
my whole posse envied a kid named Kevin who greened us all terribly with his Mattel "Indian Scout" rifle, and
a Thunderer pistol worn on a belt with a Mattel pop out derringer buckle. The Scout was a copy of a Remington
rolling block carbine that fired Shootin' Shells, the Thunderer was a metal colt-a-like from the '50's that fired
TWO ROLLS of caps at once, and the derringer belt buckle had a "surprise" feature (as seen on TV) that
allowed the little gun to pop out and fire if some outlaw had the drop on you. Lucky Kevin.
Apparently some kids never got over Kevin envy if the price old toy guns fetch on ebay is any indicator. I
bet at least a house payments worth got thrown away at my house!
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Gordon Frye
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| Posted: Fri 19 Nov, 2004 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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He had a SCOUT??? Oh MAN! Serious envy there, no doubt! I had the Mattell Winchester of course... but I was a bit of a nutcase even then, and eventually cut it down into a Volcanic pistol, LOL! (No, I wasn't going for the "Dead or Alive" look, I wanted a Volcanic!) I remember those "Belt-Buckle Derringers" too... they were too cool. There were a LOT of very, very cool toy guns back then... of course, there are a lot of very, very cool REAL guns (and swords!) here now, but for some odd reason they seem to be just as out of reach as the toys were then. Sometimes Mana from Heaven falls to our lot, but not often enough! Hmmm... something very cosmic going on here.
What is really weird is now seeing stuff that I played with as a kid in the early '60's being sold in bloody ANTIQUE stores! Hey, I'm not THAT old! LOL! My Dad's toys, sure, but not MINE! 
Anyway, this thread just keeps getting further and further away from it's origins, and more fun too! Thanks for starting it Mac!
Gordon
"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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David Wilson
Location: In a van down by the river Joined: 23 Aug 2003
Posts: 803
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| Posted: Fri 19 Nov, 2004 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhhhh.... here's something that makes me drool as much as a fine sword: Old timey revolvers, in "serious" calibers...
Colt or S&W? It's all good.... but I gotta admit a lust for the old SAA. Too many John Wayne movies, I guess....
David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe
Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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