[Rich Knack]

Were padded jacks used as stand-alone armour (with or without jack chains) ever simply stuffed with wool, cotton, or other material? Or were they ALWAYS layered with multiple layers of linen, canvas, etc.? I want to put together a late medieval kit for a footsoldier, complete with jack chains (which I already have), and I have a pattern from Reconstructing History for a 15th century "arming coat", but little information was provided with the pattern as to what appropriate padding would be if used as stand-alone armor with no breastplate or maille. I am also on a tight budget, and stuffing would be much more affordable for me than multiple layers of linen.

[Gary Teuscher]

[James Barker]

Stuffed jacks were used as stand alone armor. There are even extant examples which I have here: www.historiclife.com/Essays/Jacks.htm

I understand the Leeds museum also has a fragment of a stuffed and quilted jack that they are studying; dated to the war of the roses.

[Gary Teuscher]

[Paul Hansen]

Alternatively to quilting with 30 layers of linen, you could substitute the linen with woolen blankets. This way you get the same thickness with less layers. The look is the same as layered linen and different from stuffing.

The defensive abilities against sharp weapons will probably be in the middle between fully linen (which is superior) and stuffed (which I think would be inferior).

[Blaz Berlec]

I'd go for the layers. Not linen, but cotton batting - it is used in almost every preserved textile armour (Lubeck jacks, civilian jupon of CHarles de Blois, and I think the jupon of the Black Prince). Much easier to sew than linen too.

[Bartek Strojek]

[Mart Shearer]

The 1322 London Armourer's Guild regulations call for white aketons to be stuffed with cotton and old cloth. If city militiamen can afford cotton filled aketons in 1322, it's not out of reach for the "middle class". I think the Italian merchants were getting cotton from Egypt, not quite the distance to India. That doesn't mean tow or other materials weren't used as well.

[Viktor Chudinov]

A question on stuffing - How was it historically done? Does one sew canals on the shell and then fill them with the stuffing them, or is it more like quilting? Or is quilting reserved for layered garments?

[Randall Moffett]

I do not think so. All the examinations on padded armours show the layering whether of linen or raw cotton like material. I do not think stuffing as people think of it was ever done. Some helmet liners I saw were filled with plant material and it was simply laid down and sewn in place. As I looked at the places where the string went in and out you could see it penetrating the plant matter.

So from what I have seen quilting. I'd love to see evidence of channels being stuffed as it is easier. But not from what I have seen was this done.

In the late medieval period cotton was grown in several European mediterranean locations as well, Spain for example.

RPM

[James Barker]

[Dan Howard]

Agreed with Randall. The word "stuffed" has a different meaning today than it did at the time.

[Viktor Chudinov]

Thanks for the answers.

[Len Parker]

Details of the Charles VI cote armour http://www.wolfeargent.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb...p;go=newer

[Sam Gordon Campbell]

[Gary Teuscher]

I wrote (copied to be specific)

[Randall Moffett]

Gary,

Perhaps but several of the finds we have are clearly not higher up garments as said eairlier the Lubeck. Many of the remaining liners and padding in armour are on cheaper munition types such as the black salley at the RA.

RPM

[James Barker]

[Rich Knack]

I wonder just how well moving blankets would work as stuffing, and how many I should use? Being that they are already quilted, I would think they'd be easier to use than batting - less tendency to shift around, and you wouldn't be able to see it from the outside.

[James Barker]