[Brian M]

A bit of an esoteric question here: I've read that the Templars prohibited any kind of ornamentation on their swords. Did they have a policy on the color of their scabbards and sword grips? I'm ordering an Albion Templar, and I'm trying to decide between a black and a red grip. Would it be historical for a Templar to have a red-gripped sword with a red scabbard, or would that have been prohibited as flashy ornamentation? I don't have any sources that address this.

Regards,
Brian M

[Patrick Kelly]

I've never read anything concerning restrictions on things like this in the military orders.

I'm just guessing but I'd say that it probably wasn't done. Dying anything back then would increase the cost, thereby showing a display of wealth. Since the Templars were supposed to take a vow of poverty it might have been considered bad form at the very least.

[Brian M]

So, what you're saying is that, even if there isn't a rule about it that we know of, it might have been an understood rule in the period? So their leather acoutrements (scabbard, grip, belt, etc.) might well have been left in natural finish?

Brian M

[Patrick Kelly]

[Jeremy V. Krause]

Brian,
I wouldn't worry about it but that's just me. I just received my Templar with oxblood grip and it looks great

[Alina Boyden]

You have to remember that the reality of the military orders was often far different from the ideal. Still, I would expect the Albion light brown color to be ideal for the rugged templar warrior who was trying to fit the ideal of the order. For the rest of them something like red or black might have been acceptable. But the more I think about it the less I think color would have any place to play in a military order. Afterall, the Teutonic Knights (Der Deutsche Orden) were required to wear clothes of a priestly cut and a "somber hue." That is to say natural, brown, or black. Certainly something like red would have been seen as flashy. In the Byzantine empire red boots were the symbol of the Emperor. Red also attained a position of prominence in the west. And when we move into the Hospitallers it because even more somber. The Hospitallers wore monks' robes even in battle for the first century or two of the order despite the fact that fighting in the robes was far harder than fighting in surcoats. It seems that retaining the monastic character of the order was more important than mens' lives.

Finally, we must bear in mind that in the case of the Hospitallers and the Templars (and probably the Teutonic Knights as well though evidence is sketchy) that the knight couldn't even own property. On his death, his armor and sword and scabbard and even his clothes would have been sent back to the order's headquarters and redistributed where it was most needed. In light of this, I think the worn light brown color would best fit the sword of a Templar.

[Jeremy V. Krause]

In thinking about the various hues available on the historic grip , indeed even the materials used and their appearance upon that grip I am not sure that we can say that one modern interpretation is more valid than the other.
We really know very much of the composition and the presentation of grips during the high middle ages. And so to reccommend the albion light brown grip may be misleadinging in that this grip seaks to simulate a certain period of usage of that sword.
We really know so little about the dyes available and the acceptance of those various hues that guessing seems meaningless. I guess what I am saying is "we don't know."

[Russ Ellis]

Just as a further bit of information, it should be noted that most Templars at least (and I assume the same things would apply to the Hospitalers, Teutonic Knights, Sword Brothers etc. were often noblemen prior to becoming members. They were expected to provide their own arms, horse and so forth. As such one wonders if they would have gone to the trouble of having everything regripped, and generally toned down. It should also be noted that the Templars were the single richest institution in Europe and money does have a way of affecting people...

[Brian M]

Well, it seems the general consensus is that red is unlikely, at least for a Templar or Hospitallar. I can understand that. I don't think that black would be unreasonable, though. I guess I have to decide between black, light brown, and oxblood. Albion's dark brown is out because it seems too close to black.

Brian M

[Alina Boyden]

[Russ Ellis]

For the templars the figure I've read was 1 knight to 9 "sergents" but I'm sure the number varied. However I assume that our questioner here was probably referring to a knightly sword since the sargents were commoners and could have duties anywhere from fighting to cooking.

[Jesse S. Bailey]

Regarding Templars... actually the Rule of the Temple puts a ban on ornamentation, ie. gilding, fancy horse harness, gilded spurs etc. Which really only applies to the Temple Brothers acquiring or buying for themselves these said goods. On the other hand, there is documentation of Secluar Knights giving gifts to the Temple Order and at the Grand Masters discretion, these could be used by the Temple Brothers (the Knights of the Order). Sgts. and the like would have received even lower class and very basic weapons and equipment. There is one incident of a brother knight giving an older sword to a Sergeant-at-Arms because the knight had a better quality sword given to him. Also another incident of a gilded horse bridle given to the Order and the Master of the Temple ok'g it for use, but actually telling the knight it was given to, not to polish it but to keep it dull in appearance.

This is just a few examples of how Temple knights and sergeants acquired arms and armour. Also there were Secular Knights serving at given times, say for a year or for a campaign and wore the Temple Guard while in service of the Temple, but using all of their own equipment. When their term was up, they would leave the Order the Templar mantle and surcoat, but would retain all of their own equipment they had brought with them.

Hope this helps to clear up any questions.
JesseB

PS. By all means, I would think a red grip would be fine. As a matter of fact, the black dye that is now being used, is too jet black in color as opposed to period dyes.

[Alina Boyden]

[Nathan Robinson]

[Sam Barris]

You could always go with oxblood and say that it's been stained with the blood of slaughtered infidels.

[Patrick Kelly]

Just a thought Brian, but this might make for an interesting interpretation. Go with a more showy color but have it weathered and distressed, thereby making the sword look like it had been acquired from outside the order and had been issued out several times. Having both the grip and scabbard done in this fashion might be neat.

[Alina Boyden]

[Brian M]

All great suggestions and information. I have to think about this now.

Brian M

[Robert B. Marks]

Forgive me for weighing in so late - I've been busy becoming a university student again, and haven't had as much time for swords as I would prefer - but it may be an idea to try to find some contemporary pictoral representations of the Templars and Hospitallers and see what colour their sword grips are. You'd probably get a decent idea from that of what to look for.

Best to all,

Robert Marks

[Alina Boyden]