[Corey Skriletz]

For the past year, the myArmoury community has been extremely helpful in answering questions I've had. I just got a job and I can finally afford a riveted maille hauberk. I don't want to get too fancy a hauberk, because my budget cannot exceed $450.00. I found a couple on an e-Bay store that are really well priced. He said he specializes in customization, so I can get one that actually fits instead of one that's much too big. The only problem is that I'm not sure which one to get. So here are the questions I have:

1) which of these two hauberks is more accurate for a late 12th century Norman knight kit?
Keep in mind, I can get the sleeves lengthened, it's the ring and rivet style I'm curious about.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/8mm-MS-Flat-Riveted-w...41665aee18

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chain-Mail-Shirt-Roun...4166732d87


2) I seem to recall hearing that maille could be laced up the back, which would make for a better fit, but I've never seen any pictorial evidence. Is there any historical evidence of lace up maille hauberks? If so, does anybody have a lace-up hauberk that they could post pictures of that I can send to the maker so he has a reference?


Thank you all for your time.

[Robin Smith]

I'd go with the top one. The smaller 8mm diameter and alternating row construction is more appropriate for the period.

I don't believe I have ever heard of a laced up hauberk. The mail chausses (leg pieces) were often laced up the back, but not the hauberks.

[Timo Nieminen]

There are various Eastern styles of mail shirts that are laced/tied/toggled/pegged. From mail shirts that open at the front and lace up, through to armoured kaftans (think bathrobe or karate gi top with a mail lining/cover//inner layer). All that I know of open at the front, not the back. Some of them overlap at the front.

You can put one a closer fitting mail shirt that does up at the front than if you have to pull it over your head like a T-shirt.

[Corey Skriletz]

[Luka Borscak]

Round maille is more appropriate for the norman period.

[Robin Smith]

[Corey Skriletz]

[Randall Moffett]

Robin,

Not sure I understand your comment. Are you saying that the maille was indeed round but since the current round maille listed here is not the same, besides being round, so it is better to go with something that has flat rings that was certainly not used as no matter what one uses it is wrong?

Corey,

Here is an example of early medieval maille. Too early for Norman but I could not think of any other finds off the top of my head-
http://thethegns.blogspot.com/2011/10/valsgar...art-3.html


RPM

[Robin Smith]

[Jojo Zerach]

I think people can get to hung up over details on stuff like this. If you're on a budget, anything riveted is doing well.

[Brian Robson]

[Dan Howard]

Agreed. Modern reproductions only superficially look like the original examples so you really need to work out what you need it for. If you want it for SCA then most riveted mail would be OK. It is a lot lighter than the butted mail that used to be worn. If you want it for live steel then smallish rings (6mm ideally) - probably alternating solid and round ring riveted would be best. If you just want a costume then look for the cheapest and/or lightest riveted mail you can find. If you want to test it against weapons then none of the commercial mail is suitable. I'd suggest paying a little more and getting galvanised mail. Iron mail doesn't look like the originals anyway and you are creating unneccessary work for yourself keeping it clean. Galvanised mail can be darkened so that it looks like iron and you don't have to bother keeping it rust free.

[Brian Robson]

[Randall Moffett]

Robin,

Recent riveted mail does have a much smaller head on the round riveted type. That said they tend to look more like later round links that have flattened sections for the rivet where as from what I have seen most earlier round mail is basically flush and round where the rivet is. That said as the Coppergate mail shows there are a number of link types of the round in use, including the larger flattened sections. CAS Iberia does indeed sell a mix of the round solid links and round riveted links.

I think Dan wraps it up nicely. I'd go with what is closest but please do not think this works for testing of how good period mail was.

I use a round link hauberk that is medium sized in diameter. The thing has a few links busted open on occasion by halbards and such but for single handed weapons it holds up with little to no damage. Just replaced a half dozen rivets and a link in it and two popped rivets on my coif. Took a few hours largely to find them.....

RPM

[Robin Smith]

[Corey Skriletz]

These are all excellent points. In the end, I will only be using this for videos and renaissance faires as there are no reenactment groups (at least that I am aware of) near my area. So not too many people will be looking at it too closely, and those that do, probably wouldn't be able to tell if it's inaccurate. The definite bonus of the $400 hauberk is that it comes with a riveted coif for thirty-five more dollars, which would probably save me a bundle in the end.

Dan: You said it's easy to darken galvanized maille, how would one go about that?

[Jojo Zerach]

[Brian Robson]

Fastening up the back reminds me of the point below (mainly because I see no point in it because of the amount of 'stretch' in a suit of mail)

Be wary of sizes when buying mail.

Most give sizes based on the mail fully expanded (which is exactly how you don't want it when wearing it). Make sure you have plenty of room to let it rest properly without being stretched. If I remember correctly, mines was either a 52 or 54 inch chest hauberk, to go over my 40" chest with thin aketon - and it was a shade too tight, so I had to split and expand it at the shoulder blades.

Whenever you move/breathe, the mail stretches to accomodate, and it needs the leeway to do that.

[Dan Howard]

[Corey Skriletz]