'Bastard backswords' -- myArmoury.com

Mark T · Posted: Tue 24 Apr, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: 'Bastard backswords'

Hi all,

I'm have a few questions about a sword design/profile that has been called the 'bastard backsword' - a straight, European-style sword that has an single edge for most of its length, but a sharpened false edge, from about the COP to the tip.

Some years ago, Angus Trim made a few of these (variously catalogued as AT1564, 1665, and 1566 - see sample images below; other and larger images can still be seen on the ASA Sworkworks site from that time: http://www.atrimasa.com/AT1440.html).

I was curious about their historical precedence. A fairly thorough search here and at SFI (using Google Advanced Search) found a couple of people asking the same question back then, but now answers.

I recently came across one historical example, number 1977-167-550 in the Philadelphia Museum of Art ([url]http://www.philamuseum.org/collections/permanent/162497.html?mulR=793|1[/url], image below):

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Wed 25 Apr, 2012 7:39 am Post subject:

Excellent topic, I am very excited to see what comes up as these are one of my favorite types of sword. Here is an example that is more thrust oriented. http://www.vikverir.no/ressurser/usages_mythe...mp;page=17 I am sure that there are a few more here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...light=xiii There is also a thread here about single-edged swords
http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ingleedged
I find that the great advantage of a single edged design is that one can better combine extreme stiffness with an edge acute enough to cut, thus the great popularity of isoceles triangular sections in daggers. I imagine that those examples with a back edge would perform in combat and use the same techniques as a double edged longsword. I just finished cutting out a blank from a truck leaf spring that will be a single edged longsword, I am going to begin forging today. I really don't like the term "bastard backsword." The term "backsword" originated about mid-16th century and most of the swords of the type under discussion were late 15th-early 16th. As far as I know, there was no period term for these swords, and if you showed one to a 16th-century warrior or sword maker and asked him what it was, he would probably just call it a "longsword." Perhaps we can come up with a better terminology that we can all agree on. Great topic Mark.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 25 Apr, 2012 8:06 am Post subject:

I love these, too. There are MANY beautiful examples. Here's a relatively plain Museum of London piece I find especially appealing because it's within reach as a project if I can just find a Windlass backsword blade. (another one, actually, because I used to own exactly the blade I need!)

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Fri 27 Apr, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject:

Sean, I really like that one too. It looks very cut-oriented. Any idea what the measurements might be? 80-90cm blade 4cm wide sound about right? I have recently been forging spherical pommels, if I can get making crosses with side rings down, that one might be doable for me. I ended up forging my single-edger into a double-edger, but I still have the other half of the spring to work with. I cut the spring in half lengthwise diagonally, so to get parallel back and edge I would have to forge the tip down really thin. Maybe 3.5-4cmx6mm at the base to 3-3.5cmx2mm 3-5cm back from the tip. Do those sound like reasonable measurements to you? I can't wait for these burns to heal ( I made a really rookie mistake a couple days ago) so I can get back to the forge!

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 30 Apr, 2012 6:58 am Post subject:

Mark T · Posted: Fri 11 May, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject:

Scott and Sean - thanks for those leads. If anyone has other examples they'd like to post, I'd be very thankful. And does anyone know of versions currently being produced? So far, I've only come across the old ATrims ...

Hellen Tomazin · Posted: Mon 10 Apr, 2017 11:56 am Post subject:

Elmslie Typology classify this weapon as a Falchion type F5b0.

Yeah... it's a Falchion, can you believe it?? XD

Dan Howard · Posted: Mon 10 Apr, 2017 5:51 pm Post subject:

It is only a falchion because Elmslie decided to call it a falchion. It is not a falchion; it is a type of bastard sword or long sword. A typology is useless if it makes no sense and nobody uses it.

Thanks for the bump, Hellen. Perhaps it will remind people about this thread and we will see more photos of these swords.

JG Elmslie · Industry Professional

Dan Howard · Posted: Mon 10 Apr, 2017 9:13 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the clarification James. It makes more sense now. You can't make a post like that without some pics. What photos do you have to show us?