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James A. Vargscarr




Location: Englishman living in Canada
Joined: 17 Oct 2004

Posts: 92

PostPosted: Sat 06 Nov, 2004 10:10 am    Post subject: A polishing question         Reply with quote

A good long while ago, I remember reading a post that suggested using a Scotch Brite pad would enhance the patterns on a pattern-welded blade. Frustratingly, I can't find any reference to the topic via the usual search engines. Can anyone give me more information on experimenting with this technique, its effectiveness, potential cautions etc; and suggest which grade of Scotch Brite to use? Blue and Green are readily available to me, so I'm hoping I won't have to track down Grey...
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Jason Dingledine




Location: Aurora, Ohio
Joined: 18 Aug 2003

Posts: 219

PostPosted: Sat 06 Nov, 2004 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: A polishing question         Reply with quote

James A. Vargscarr wrote:
A good long while ago, I remember reading a post that suggested using a Scotch Brite pad would enhance the patterns on a pattern-welded blade. Frustratingly, I can't find any reference to the topic via the usual search engines. Can anyone give me more information on experimenting with this technique, its effectiveness, potential cautions etc; and suggest which grade of Scotch Brite to use? Blue and Green are readily available to me, so I'm hoping I won't have to track down Grey...


Not sure about the pads highlighting the patterns, but the two places you should readily be able to find the gray scotchbrite pads are at Walmart in the automotive section, or at Home Depot in the paint department. This is of course assuming you are in the US.

Jason Dingledine
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Andy Bain




Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Joined: 24 Aug 2003

Posts: 119

PostPosted: Sat 06 Nov, 2004 12:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And for us Canucks and Brits living in Canada you should be able be able to find gray ones at a
Canadian Tire.
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James A. Vargscarr




Location: Englishman living in Canada
Joined: 17 Oct 2004

Posts: 92

PostPosted: Sun 07 Nov, 2004 7:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Andy - thanks for the tip, I'll give Canadian Tire a go since there's one within walking distance of my apartment.

Jason - ironically enough I was actually looking in the automotive section of Walmart for Grey pads not two days ago - no joy I'm afraid; I had heard that they'd been discontinued for some reason and so wasn't surprised when I was told there were none in stock. Not sure if there's a Home Depot in Winnipeg, but I'll look it up if Canadian Tire proves fruitless - thanks for the suggestions.

I believe the idea behind Scotch Brite polishing the steel is to shine up the 'upper' layer of the pattern which can sometimes look a little darker from the etching, whilst letting the 'lower', sunken layer alone to provide a higher level of contrast.

I know that Scotch Brite pads are also recommended as rust removers; and I believe that Grey is usually the advised grade. I'm assuming that's because Grey cleans well without scratching; while Green is a little too abrasive, and non-scratch Blue is insufficient.

If I can't turn up a Grey pad I'll experiment with Blue and see how it goes playing it safe. My sword looks good as is, but there was a little staining left over from the etch that would look better gone. The pattern is etched nice and deeply, so I have no fear of marring it in any way with a little careful brightening; and the sword's still in England, so I won't have a chance to try this out any time soon. If and when I do, I'll be sure to post results.
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Alexi Goranov
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PostPosted: Sun 07 Nov, 2004 12:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James A. Vargscarr wrote:
Andy - thanks for the tip, I'll give Canadian Tire a go since there's one within walking distance of my apartment.

Jason - ironically enough I was actually looking in the automotive section of Walmart for Grey pads not two days ago - no joy I'm afraid; I had heard that they'd been discontinued for some reason and so wasn't surprised when I was told there were none in stock. Not sure if there's a Home Depot in Winnipeg, but I'll look it up if Canadian Tire proves fruitless - thanks for the suggestions.

I believe the idea behind Scotch Brite polishing the steel is to shine up the 'upper' layer of the pattern which can sometimes look a little darker from the etching, whilst letting the 'lower', sunken layer alone to provide a higher level of contrast.

I know that Scotch Brite pads are also recommended as rust removers; and I believe that Grey is usually the advised grade. I'm assuming that's because Grey cleans well without scratching; while Green is a little too abrasive, and non-scratch Blue is insufficient.

If I can't turn up a Grey pad I'll experiment with Blue and see how it goes playing it safe. My sword looks good as is, but there was a little staining left over from the etch that would look better gone. The pattern is etched nice and deeply, so I have no fear of marring it in any way with a little careful brightening; and the sword's still in England, so I won't have a chance to try this out any time soon. If and when I do, I'll be sure to post results.


The "Gray" pads have almost standard abrasive properties, regardless of who makes them. I could not find the Scotch Brite brand at the time, but found a much cheeper substitute form a whole sale supplier (do not remember the brand). Now I am stocked for life with gray pads. You are right about the use of the gray pads: they are abrasive but not too abrasive to leave scratches. A substitute of Gray pads is the fine steel wool, but I do not know what effects it will have on the pattern-welded blade.

Cheers,

Alexi
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Don Halter
Industry Professional



Location: Bryan, TX
Joined: 25 Mar 2004

Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2004 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I tried scotch-brite pads a couple times on pattern welded pieces and hated the result. They tend to conform to the contour of the surface and remove the edges to the etched areas, which "blurs" the pattern. I usually use a small piece of worn 1500 grit silicon carbide (wet/dry) paper, dampened with olive oil and just very lightly rub the surfaces. I don't etch my patterns very deep so that may have an effect as well, but scotch-brite is generally pretty abrasive on polished metal.
Don "Krag" Halter
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James A. Vargscarr




Location: Englishman living in Canada
Joined: 17 Oct 2004

Posts: 92

PostPosted: Mon 08 Nov, 2004 11:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the caution Don - personal experience like that is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to hear. Great to have feedback from someone who's actually tried the technique. I wish I could remember who suggested it originally, since the topic came up several times back on the old, pre-current archives SFI. If memory serves, it seemed to be regarded as fairly fail-safe by its practitioners - usually involving a "you should try..." sentiment, as opposed to being brought up in a "some people like the look of..." context. Obviously it's worked well for some people, or they're fans of the effect you describe; though it does sound like it rather drastically alters the original appearance of the etch.

I'm glad to know about the other side of the coin, and I'll hold off from trying it myself until I learn a good deal more about the pros and cons. My sword's pattern is very bold, and etched very deeply; but since I have a real preference for high contrast weld patterns, the last thing I want to do is blur the edges.

And thanks for the information about Grey pads, Alexi - good to know there's an alternative to Scotch Brite out there. The pattern-polishing issue aside, I've wanted to pick up some slightly more abrasive 'just in case' cleaning pads in case I have to deal with rust or staining in future, so the information is still most useful to me.
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Andy Bain




Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
Joined: 24 Aug 2003

Posts: 119

PostPosted: Tue 09 Nov, 2004 6:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James, let me know if you can't find what you need. I could always get it for you here and send it
out your way.
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James A. Vargscarr




Location: Englishman living in Canada
Joined: 17 Oct 2004

Posts: 92

PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov, 2004 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Andy - very kind of you, and will do!

Cheers!
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Don Halter
Industry Professional



Location: Bryan, TX
Joined: 25 Mar 2004

Posts: 94

PostPosted: Wed 10 Nov, 2004 9:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've never used the blue pads, so I can't speak for them, but I've used the greys before. With a deep etch where you can feel a definite ridge along the pattern, it might not matter as much. For my methods with more shallow etching, I didn't like it at all. I garauntee it will remove a hamon! A friend of mine tried to use it to "bring out the hamon after etching" and it quickly removed it. Somewhere around I have some pics of one I did with a pad. I'll look and see if I can find it.
Don "Krag" Halter
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