Favorite non-sword weapon? -- myArmoury.com

Eric G. · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: Favorite non-sword weapon?

Hello friends,

I was just thinking the other day about a nice question that could spark some interesting/fun discussion for all of us.

What is your favorite non-sword weapon? Why did you pick this weapon?

While that may seem a little simple, let me expound a bit. Consider answer some or all of these questions below:

1) Is there a single style that most draws your attention? If so then why?
2) If given the chance to use this in history, what time/place would you choose?
3) Are there manuscripts out there that illustrate the use of this weapon and have you studied them?
4) Do you own one such weapon? Who made it and what do you love best about it?

I have my own response prepared, but would like to see what some of you say before I post it.

Don't forget that a picture is worth a thousand words.

Timo Nieminen · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject:

Spear! I could have said the same even if you had asked about favourite weapon, swords included.

There is an immense variety within the category of "spear", so it's possible to find the "just right" spear. There are simple ones, pretty ones, cheap ones, expensive ones, blingy ones, short ones, long ones, cavalry ones, infantry ones.

Perhaps "spear" is too broad an answer (almost as broad as "sword" would be to a similar question not excluding swords). So, to be more specific: 6-8 foot two-handed cut-thrust spear.

This is about the best spear to use one-on-one, or one-on-few. My opinion, but also what many sources say. It's a very elegant and very effective martial arts weapon. This is the key attraction. It is lots of fun to fight with.

We have European, Chinese, Japanese, and Korean sources on the use of such spears. I've been mostly looking at the Chinese sources. If time permits, I'd like to do a comparison across sources from the different areas. I should find and read some Arab/Mamluk/Turkish/Persian and Indian sources.

For spears in general, I have a bunch of reproductions and antiques, mostly unmounted heads. For this particular type, 6 mounted ones, not counting trainers. 3 Japanese, 2 Viking, 1 Napoleonic. I don't have a particular favourite all-round one. The prettiest is the Hanwei Yari, but I'm not convinced by its balance.

(I will not be surprised if there are many modern firearm replies. Clearly, these are more effective, but not what I would consider as much fun to train with.)

Gottfried P. Doerler · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject:

i go along with Timo, its spear !
in particular the ahlspiess (=awl pike ?)
i dont know if there was a specific style of fencing with these (and if there are any manuscripts), but from its looks the use seems to be all about lines and angles. just like rapiers and i absolutely fancy rapiers, maybe thats why i like the ahlspiess.

also in this category of spears, that imho allow for quick fencing are all these with a possibility to parry like the boar spear or the swedish "spears made of swords" (you probably know the dolnstein-depiction).

Phil D. · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 3:07 pm Post subject:

I like the Chinese Monks Spade...there are books,manuscripts,DVD's,etc on how to use these but I have no idea on how to personally wield one .They have always seemed like a deadly weapon.And I have enjoyed seeing them in action since growing up watching Shaw Bros. classics.

Peter Messent · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject:

Generically, I would say the axe. More specifically, I am in love with both one and two handed axes of Viking age northern europe. A good axe can kill a foe, chop down a tree, split the wood, hew the wood into planks or carve it, skin and clean an animal and prep the meat. They use less metal than a sword and if it takes a tapered handle rather than a wedged one, replacing the haft is ridiculously easy. I would go so far as to say that it is probably one of the most (if not the most) versatile tools going - particularly at the time.

These are both axes from the site of Ragnar's Ragweed Forge. I don't own either but I want both!

Just in case you aren't impressed. This is from oldjimbo.com in the survival section. Lots of good axe stuff there. This was done by cutting wedges with the hatchet, starting splits with the hatchet and driving it home with the wedges. A good axe is only limited by your experience and determination.

Beyond general-purpose use, axes like the Kent pattern are fantastic dedicated wood working axes. Unfortunately mine is across the pond with my sister.

I'm not familiar with their use in war, nor am I familiar with any manuscripts instructing such use. I think that in the hand-axe form it would function best in the first millenium AD and earlier; after that and I think armor would get too effective, though I may be wrong. I'm not sure how a two-hander does against plate or mail.

Jack W. Englund · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject:

Peter agree ( Note against armor think Robert the Bruce. )

Moses Jones · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 4:47 pm Post subject:

Without a doubt a Warhammer, aka "tin can opener." There is nothing quite like having a hammer on one side and an armour piercing spike on the other to render your enemy helpless.

Paul B.G · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 5:03 pm Post subject:

For me it would be a War Hammer and probably this one by Arms & Armor http://armor.com/pole005.html

As for my reasons, its hard to say, Ive never handelled one nor have I even seen one in person but I guess for me its just one of those weapons that invokes an emotional response from me. But alas, whilst there is an exemption for collecting swords I fear a war hammer is illegal to own here in Victoria Australia.

Jeremy V. Krause · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject:

Probably it would be a seax, and more specifically, an Anglo-Saxon boken-back seax.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 5:19 pm Post subject:

Well, the general answer is polearm:

A) Basic spear/Winged spear for simplicity and speed.
B) Bill/Halberd versatility.
C) Poleaxe/Pole-Hammer, will make an " impression " no matter how well armoured is the opponent.
D) Long handled Danish Axe/Bardiche, well it's an axe. Laughing Out Loud

The main issue is length: Short polearms 5' to 6' for closer in fighting versus the 7' to 9' ones with more reach but still handy for one on one fighting.

The really long ones for formation fighting.

If only one choice the Halberd or Bill wins for me. ( A&A semi-custom Bill in pic )

A. Spanjer · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject:

It has to be the spear, especially the lance.

Luke Kramer · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject:

I would have to say the quarterstaff. It is a simple yet effective weapon that can draw from a large host of material, both European and Asian. It can also effectively use longsword, polearm, and spear maneuvers without too much adaptation. It is useable against a wide variety of protective equipment; while it may not be lethal in all cases, it will certainly be able to defeat your opponent.

You can take it anywhere, since few places in antiquity and modern times recognize it as a weapon. It has the utilitarian purpose of a walking stick. To top off the argument, one can carve one himself with minimal effort. I make a few every year, out of some black locust (and occasionally oak) trees on my father's and grandfather's farm.

Glen A Cleeton · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject:

I dabble about with non sword items. Spears seem to have a fascination for me, as do halberds. There is a cheapie German halberd head out there that I may work into a shape mrmore like the British sergeants halberds of the 18th century.
http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=...lberd+Head

I am having a Goldilocks moment with my hanwei spontoon and after hafting it twice (for length) willl probably have a third go this season. I picked up a Friedrich spear here at myArmoury and found some more background on the original being half again as big. I picked up an A&A Nordlund on the sly as well but have always had an eye on their Hungarian. This while having hefted their Dane a couple of times in the past. Axes always seem more utilitarian to me, as having used them for so many decades. One return to youth was finding a Collins camp/cruising size axe and another fairly scarce ames ice axe from the WWII period. I actually used the Nordland to cut a path past a downed tree's branches in that freak October snow last fall. The Friedrich has robbed the spear budget plans but the Hanwei yaris look like something I really need. Or a Kris Cutlery yari blade, hafted to suit.

The Ames ice axe could sure do the job as a weapon as well and I have used it to chip out ice off the roof and drifts from a last season.. A mild winter this year. These were Mountain Division army pieces.
http://www.alpenglow.org/ski-history/notes/book/burton-1971.html

Cheers

GC

Sam Barris · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 9:43 pm Post subject:

It's a toss up between a bow and a staff. I love archery for many of the same reasons that I love fencing, but the staff is an amazingly practical thing whether on a hike or in a fight.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject:

Dave Stephan · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject:

I find the mace to be a very interesting weapon. Apparently the mace was also a common monk's weapon due to the fact it wouldn't draw blood (for some reason crushing bones isn't a sin Razz

).

I think its a very underappreciated weapon, especially in film. The stereotypical knight's weapon is a sword or an axe. Flanged maces deliver powerful, denting holes, much like spiked maces, while flails (based off the agricultural device) gain their momentum from its own weight until finally cracked. The mace is also a common cerimonial weapon. The only real disadvantage is that you can't defend with it.

I'm not sure how accurate flailed maces are in a medieval Britain setting, but whether they existed or not doesn't matter, they're a very cool weapon because of their simplicity and uniqueness.

I always imagined the best way to take down an armoured knight was a shield to block his sword and then bash him to the ground with a heavy mace to disable him.

If I had to choose one weapon to have other than a sword it would be a flail.

Jean Thibodeau · Posted: Sat 17 Mar, 2012 11:47 pm Post subject:

Dave Stephan · Posted: Sun 18 Mar, 2012 12:05 am Post subject:

Timo Nieminen · Posted: Sun 18 Mar, 2012 12:08 am Post subject:

Dave Stephan · Posted: Sun 18 Mar, 2012 12:14 am Post subject:

A two handed mace certainly, you could use it like a quarterstaff to take blows plus the added feature of a longer grip, thus more momentum when you swing it, more power. Two hands = more power on the swing too.

However using a one handed mace or a flail would require a shield because I don't see how you can defend using a single handed mace, especially if its weighty. You lose a lot of power without the extra length and hand. I myself have never seen a flail used in film, except during the fight scene of Ivanhoe (1953). Maybe I have and don't remember.

A flail would require a lot more skill than a mace as well because of the unpredictabiltiy of the moving head. You have to keep it powered or else you're vulnerable but you have to keep it away from you as well. If you can use a flail and a shield together and sustain the speed you're flying.