[R Ashby]

Ok- first off let me say a HUGE thank you to the members here- many of you helped me with a couple of questions on my first book, and it's currently being "second looked" by several publishers. Your input was really important to the overall success of the book.

Now, next question: If you had to choose one or two weapons (no guns allowed!) to use against a foot soldier in heavy armor (mail with lots of plated sections, or full plate), what would you choose?

Thanks!

[Bjorn Hagstrom]

Well, personally I would use a heavy crossbow from a long, safe distance!
But in a melee situation, it seems that the pollaxe/warhammer was the weapon of choice for wealthy and well trained men in armour.

[R Ashby]

My thoughts as well. And perhaps a mace?

[Luka Borscak]

Mace is ok, but with a hammer or poleaxe you have more possibilities.

[Colt Reeves]

Yeah, that sounds about right. Maybe a trebuchet loaded with a bunch of fist or head sized rocks?

Seriously though, a pollaxe would be a good bet, a mace might be nice, perhaps a spear if there are large sections of exposed mail.

I think you need to clarify a few things though. For example, do we get armour too? Does a shield count as a weapon? 'Cause that'd be handy if we aren't allowed armour for some reason. Are we fighting one on one or in a large battlefield where we might expect some aid fighting this guy? What weapon or weapons is he packing? Does the guy have equal, greater, or less skill than ourselves? Do we have time to train with weapons we are not familiar with or do we have to stick with what we already know? (Boy am I in trouble with that one. ) Do we even know any of these things, or are we only told "He's wearing heavy armour?"

All of these things might change our choice of weapons. If I knew the guy was a crappy fighter and using a spear I might choose a mace, a good thrusting longsword, or even a dagger in order to try to "prison yard rush" him, get past his point, and do some damage before he can react. If I knew he was a really good fighter but using just a mace I might go for a pollaxe, spear, billhook, ahlspiess, halberd, or some other polearm to try and keep him at bay. If I get good armour and am facing a foe with an arming sword and shield, I might find it best to go with a thrusting longsword just because it is more versatile and I am relatively safe from counterattack.

There are a lot of variables here...

[R Ashby]

I'm still in the formative stages on this one.

Here's some ideas:

Idea 1: the peasant knight-killer: lowest end armor unless he stripped it off someone he killed, and weapons that he would be familiar with- a guess and axe or bill could be good there.

Idea 2: Knight killer that is a trained soldier- knight himself, but needs the versatility to fight both in and out of armor, against opponents both in and out of armor. So basically put, needs a "one-kills-all weapon". Longsword and poleaxe?

Idea 3: Knight with less armor that kills knights with more armor, so knight 1 has more speed. Practical at all? Sounds too Hollywood to me, I'd think you'd want distance in a weapon, so maybe a longer polearm, which is not all hat flexible in tight conditions.

Sounds like #2 is the most realistic sort of character.

[Craig Johnson]

In discussions of this type of combative interaction it is good to look at the period sources that describe such encounters and how they play out in theory and in reality. The weapon chosen is always part of the equation but not as important as the knowledge, confidence, training and luck of the combatants. That being said if we look at sources such as Fiore, Talhoffer and the like, we find Knightly armored combat dominated by the Poleaxe/hammer, Tucks, and a variety of pole arms such as spears and bill types.

In my opinion there is such a huge variety of these types of weapons that the basic components of length and weapon dynamics are the important aspects and the actual form can be quite varied and you should pick something that matches the time, place and status of the character.

While it is an obvious thing when one thinks about it, I often get surprised looks from folks when I lecture about medieval weapons and armor that they are just tools used by the combatants. The quality of their training and experience would be the most important aspect and their ability to translate their skills to the weapon at hand or favorite choose is the key. This would also provide a cool bit for a character in combat to have to adjust what they would do in a situation where they must use a weapon they are less familiar with.

Your writing of course allows you to approach the discussion from the fun view point that you are adding detail and interest to the character by the choice of the weapon and the circumstance of its use. Thus using the historical examples keeps it "real" but then allows you to flesh it out not just as a weapon but how the character interacts with it and the fight.

Anyway I hope that helps or at least does not sound to simplistic

Best
Craig

[Bartek Strojek]

I would definitely want armor myself, in the first place. At least solid puffy gambeson/pourpoint.

Situation where I must dance around, hack like crazy, aim for the joins, or outgrapple opponent to have any chance, while he can disable me with flick of wrist would be not very fun at all.

But it all depends on quite obvious plot situations - if character is just returning from the market with two superbly weaved baskets, he is not supposed to have any armor at all.

[Matthew Amt]

[J.D. Crawford]

[Jean-Carle Hudon]

I for one think that a peasant fighter could do the job, inasmuch as he had a good old fashionned sledge hammer, a few tricks and an arrogant over confident adversary. Of course his best friend will be a sympathetic novel writer.
By the way, the sledge hammer,did become a popular weapon, the lead mallet, or, in french, maillet de plomb, I also vaguely remember the expression 'marteau de Luzerne', which I think is a variation of the same type of object. Basically a long hafted pile driver.

[Dan Howard]

[R Ashby]

Wow- a tremendous amount of info- thank you all so much.

I did a late-night research ramble, and came across the flemish goedendag, which according to one source turned the tables against knights from 10:1 in favor to 1:2 against. But then according to wikipedia, quoting a military historian, this weapon was designed to unseat horsemen, and that's the secret to it's effectiveness. But if that is the case, why were they so short? Wouldn't they be longer if used solely against horsemen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goedendag

The character I am envisaging is a knight himself, but fallen or exiled, sort of like Lancelot in the movie Excalibur. From memory he used a mattock in the last battle with Mordred. There's symbolism in using a peasant's weapon, particularly if it's designed for use against knights.

I'll look into bills too, but they are not as fun as a bloody big club with a spike on it.

A poleaxe or lucerne hammer is a natural choice, except I'd have a dickens of a time writing about the technical aspects of using one- too complex for my humble skills. I have enough trouble with a longsword.

Maybe my knight-killer needs to kill knights off the field of battle.

[Jean-Carle Hudon]

Dunno, wasn't there.. but there were a few nasty peasant uprisings that did a lot of damage before being ultimately quashed by overwhelming force. I have had the pleasure of breaking a few rocks in my day, and a stone mason's mass or hammer can be very impressive, especially in the hands of a real mason, the forearms on some of these guys are very strong...and as we were talking about a novel, I think that the novelist would be entitled to describe circumstances which would lead to one good crushing blow. As for the arrogance aspect, well I think we have all seen superior well trained fencers take a hit from a beginner, stuff happens, and the more your life resembles a novel, the more stuff happens...
The maillet de plomb were used against cavalry and were long. They were swung with both hands.

[Randall Moffett]

I think Dan and the others have it right. Usually commoners in little to no armour relied on amassing huge numbers to one smaller knightly force, maybe 5 or 10 to one.

That said looking around we have some examples from history, bows- England, Wales and later in France and Burgundy. Long spears/Pikes- Scots and Swiss. War Flail- Hussites, everyone always goes on and on about the guns but almost every one had one of these and three to one these are mentioned as the weapon everyone was afraid of.

That said all of these weapons were used in specific ways or they were less effective, large numbers usually being a part of them.

Now regarding the Godendag.... I doubt they knocked any one from their horse, pikes and spears do that. The Godendag is for clubbing the knights silly or the spike to finish them off.

RPM

[Bartek Strojek]

[R Ashby]

There's that dirty big club with the short spikes off the side and a longer one of the top- it looks fierce. I've seen it on myArmoury. I'll have a look for it. I think it's a morning star.

Like that last one in the picture, but with a longer spike on the top to get in under crevices in armour.

[Matthew Amt]

[Craig Johnson]

here is a nice period example. One can see that the use of an axe in the proper fashion can be quite intimidating. Now have a fellow who has seen a thing or two and been a place or three and give him something that is meant to do a job and it gets interesting pretty quick no matter how good one might be.

Best
Craig

[Ben Sweet]

My custom ordered Michael 'Tinker" Pearce Type XVII