Early 16th c. Longsword Project -- myArmoury.com

Sean Flynt · Last edited by Sean Flynt on Thu 02 Jun, 2011 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total

Here's an idea I've been kicking around since I almost accidentally acquired the guard of an old Windlass "German Backsword".

I looked at this guard for a long time and found too much wrong with it to salvage it as that particular type of late 16th c. guard. I attacked it with a Dremel tool to remove everything but the side ring. Looking at it that way I decided it could be used to create a longsword in the German style of ca. 1520. Those typically have a pommel of Oakeshott style T, often writhen. I have art historical evidence for what Peter Johnsson has described as a peeled orange or clementine matched to this type of guard on a longsword. I also have art historical evidence for plain spherical pommels in this period. I'm not sure I've seen a plain spherical pommel on a longsword with this type of guard in this period. Diagonally-filed semi-spherical pommels like that on the A&A German Bastard Sword inspiration below also seem to have been common.

Just to prove the concept I put the rough-cut and otherwise untouched guard on an A&A Dürer blade and tossed in an Alchem pommel, which I correctly guessed would provide a reasonable counterweight. The grip is just a placeholder--the leftovers of an earlier Dürer project. I wouldn't use that type for this project. The result, without any other manipulation feels great and doesn't look half-bad.

So, I'm thinking that this project could work with:
• Refinement of the guard, include a stronger re-curve of the quillons, reshaping of the terminals (to spherical, maybe filed) and either a flattening of the inside of the side ring or at least a reshaping of that central swelling (again, to spherical, maybe filed). Bright or black finish would be fine for this sword. Typical of Windlass guards, it needs LOTS of material removed.
• Refinement of the pommel. I'd create a foot, which would give the pommel more of the clementine shape but not quite that pronounced. I'd like to try the peeled-orange facets but I'm a bit nervous about that. These pommels are about $13, though, so it's not as if I'm sunk if I screw it up. I'd create a decorative washer and nut for the top of the pommel.
• The blade is perfect as-is but I might have to take a small amount of the top to get the hilt proportions right. Not sure about that yet.
• Ignore the placeholder grip. The general shape is ok but I'll need something a bit more robust. My initial thinking is that these swords look great with all-black hilts and that was a common treatment in the period.

This might be my next project, depending on how quickly all of the pieces come together in my understanding. I wanted to just throw it out here as I ponder the possibilities. As always, I welcome critique, comments and suggestions. Big Grin

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Thu 02 Jun, 2011 11:02 am Post subject:

Ooh, I like. Sean, you do such awesome work, I can't wait to see how this one turns out. My only suggestion; do a red grip. I love your work, but I am not a big fan of black grips.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 02 Jun, 2011 11:08 am Post subject:

I have a colorful, super-deluxe longsword project in the pipeline, Scott! Red grip, red scabbard...maybe even some gold. Assumes I can find the right leather and dye color. Big Grin

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Thu 02 Jun, 2011 11:34 am Post subject:

Cool, I can't wait to see it!

Robert Hinds · Posted: Thu 02 Jun, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject:

It looks like an awesome project. Can't wait to see how it looks in the end. Happy

As-is that sword reminds me of the Cluny longsword...probably the grip...

Nathan Robinson · myArmoury Admin

Sean, that has the potential to be quite nice! I rather like it. That probably doesn't surprise you as you likely know what about my taste for these things.

Cheers

Mark T · Posted: Sat 04 Jun, 2011 3:02 am Post subject:

Hi Sean, as another fan of this type, I'm also looking forward to seeing how this turns out!

One thing I find interesting about this type is that, while the pommel and terminals/finials don't always 'match' in shape, decoration, etc, there's often still a sense of harmony across the whole hilt that is often quite pleasing. I'll be interested to see your rendition of this!

I was also interested to see the highlights on the grip's cordwrapping in the first image you posted. I'm not sure I've seen any modern repros that feature this ... something new to try? Happy

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 01 Nov, 2011 8:20 am Post subject:

Seeing this sword of ca. 1500 at the Museum of London rekindled my interest in this project. I still keep thinking about a backsword blade, but when I pick up my experimental assemblage it really impresses me with its balance and proportions.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 01 Nov, 2011 8:27 am Post subject:

A quick sketch of the direction I'd go with this one.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 01 Nov, 2011 8:35 am Post subject:

A better view of the proportions:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 12 Jan, 2012 8:02 am Post subject:

progress on the guard. Still some stock removal left around the block and terminals, but the re-curving and most of the rough shaping is done. At a guess, I'd say I've removed about 25 percent of the original hilt. Big Grin

Sean Flynt · Posted: Sun 05 Feb, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject:

finished the lobed pommel, turned back to the guard and noticed a crack at the base of a quillon. applied some force and was able to open it. crack extends about 2/3 the way through the steel. filled it with jbweld, closed and clamped it. if it doesn't hold, game over Sad

Richard Eskite · Posted: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 4:39 am Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 5:33 am Post subject:

it's certainly worth a try because this thing was shaping up to be a beautiful piece. i know a guy...

Julien M · Posted: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 6:05 am Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 6:56 am Post subject:

Thanks for that diagram! I'll take that with me when I talk to my university colleague/hobbyist welder.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 7:25 am Post subject:

Yes! I'm back in bidnis thanks to a generous colleague who also revealed a complete machine shop in our science facilities, 50 yards from my office! I might learn to weld after all. I thought Vulcan was tormenting me but maybe he was just trying to steer me to the next level. Big Grin

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 9:01 am Post subject:

A couple of phone shots of the progress. It's hard to see the pommel here, but it's four-lobed and without a foot. There might be a couple of areas to clean up with a file, but it's mostly ready for polishing. I'm just getting started on the guard terminals and still have lots of work to do everywhere. But at least I'll be able to save it! The cat is for scale Big Grin

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Julien M · Posted: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 1:52 pm Post subject:

This is looking great Sean, the proportions are really nice and pleasing to the eye.

Remind me what blade you've used? A windlass? a tinker Hanwei? I'm puzzled by the length of the tang.

I take you've seen peter Johnsson messer video...want to give a go at some quillons roping?

Interesting pommel, hollow for sure given its size (mind you the tang extends so far I'm starting to doubt...). Will you top it with a flat flowery bolt for the peen?

And finally, this calls for a slender tool grip! That rules out chamois doesn't it? Happy

edit: I also like what you have in mind for these bare dagger blades. Will you grind of the raised parts at the ricasso area?

Sean Flynt · Posted: Mon 06 Feb, 2012 2:00 pm Post subject: