[A. Jake Storey II]

I've been wondering about historical unarmed martial arts of Europe. I've read allot about Ringen but was wondering about the roots of Boxing. If you've ever faced dirty boxing (boxing that trains without the rules of the ring) then you know it's an incredibly hard art to fight. It has a very simple but effective defense and impressive destructive power. I was wondering if this was used much in Medieval or Renaissance times? I know grappling is more effective against armored opponents, but even Jujutsu and Aikido use strikes, so I was wondering if it was used. I doubt there are manuals about it, but there might be art.

P.S. I'm not referring to Greek boxing.

[Connor Ruebusch]

[Scott Woodruff]

Yeah, I imagine that boxing wasn't very useful when practically everybody wore a knife (at the least) all the time. Wrestling moves would be much more useful, thus their preponderance in period manuals showing unarmed fighting techniques.

[Jared Smith]

One of the more prevalent ancient and medieval European forms of unarmed martial arts was the Greek wrestling or pankration. Several medieval era texts devote significant sections to it. http://www.thehaca.com/spotlight/unarmedcombat.htm

[Mackenzie Cosens]

Hi,
There is a bit of information on striking in Fiore' manuscript:

In his his section on the Abrazare - wrestling for one's life - Fiore (~1400ad) says: "If your opponent is not in armour , strike him in the most painful and dangerous spots such as the eyes, the nose, the temple, under the chin and in the flanks..." he then lists the eight qualities of Abrazare
Strength
Speed
Knowing advantageous grapples
Knowing how to preform breaks (arms and legs)
Knowing binds (controlling arms to make then useless for defense)
Knowing the most dangerous places to strike
Knowing how to put the opponent to the ground with endangering yourself
Knowing how to dislocate the opponents arms and legs in various ways

In his section on defending against dagger Fiore tells us always to do these five things attacker:
Take his dagger way
Strike him
Break his arms
Bind him
Throw him to the ground
(tranlation: Leoni 2009)

Fiore also show what appears to be posture to deliver a hammer fist, as well as techniques employing kicks to the lower legs and knees to the groin.

So we have documentary evidence that trained noble and high raking men at arms and knights knew and used strikes to the head and body when fighting out of armour.

One and likely a fairly conservative interpretation of how to deliver empty hand blows is mirror the strikes of the dagger - hammer fist blows to the head and as low as the elbow and under hand punch to belly and flanks no higher then the rib cage

Mackenzie

[Toke Krebs Niclasen]

The invention of gloves made boxing more dangerous to the boxers as they would now take hits to the head and get brain injury.
I know from from personal experience that hitting the head without gloves is a really bad thing for your knuckles. The hammer fist sounds safer for your hands if you really want to hit something as hard as a head.

Kicks to the head (on the ground) sounds risky too, with those flimsy shoes/moccasins you might just break a toe.

[Jack W. Englund]

IMO, while "formal "training" in unarmed combat, May have existed, but MOST learned it "informally" . , school of "hard knocks, + if lucky an sib or parent. Later on a Bud , who taught you a few things.
a. as youth - sibling fights, & peers.
b. as adults- brawls ( street, taverns etc. ) & perhaps even combat

In today's world, Boxing ( both "sport & other ) + other , are prolifically "trained". ( civilian, Mil, LEO ) But back then = ???????

Puffer

[Bryce Felperin]

As usual, Wkipedia comes through with the history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxing

[Hugh Knight]

[Mackenzie Cosens]

I agree, it is not boxing, they are strikes design to weaken your opponent or possibly put him in compliance for the primary techinique. But there does seem to be a misunderstanding that Medieval and Renaissance wma did not include strikes and that is simply not true.

To reflect back to Jake's original post: strikes are used, at least in Fiore's art, and in my experience in a way close to their use in Aikido.

[Jean Thibodeau]

[Mike O'Hara]

Hi folks

Scott Woodruff said

[Kurt Scholz]

Some cities in Germany hired fencing masters to train their armed burghers. This is another source for learning how to fight.
One source for hitting your opponent seems to have been naval combat, like savate (18th century), but I think it's possible to have had earlier roots.