Help needed with translation. -- myArmoury.com

Victor Bobr · Posted: Thu 31 Mar, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject: Help needed with translation.

First of all hello every one, I am new to this site and seeking some of your professional help.

My father found an old sword in Russia few month a go. It looks like a broad sword but don't quote me on that. The sword is in quiet good condition and it has some inscription on it. The lettering on it is very similar to German type of lettering.
I don't have a picture because I live in UK and my dad lives in Russia. I will try and get a picture up.

From what I can see it has three words something like that:-

1. ''Dora'' or ''Dors''
2. ''Shat''
3. ''Duoenteat'' or ''duoentest'' or ''duoentear''

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Gottfried P. Doerler · Posted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 12:30 am Post subject:

So if your father can`t read it its obviously not russian.
how old is the sword perhaps ?
maybe this is some long gone language, varangian/rus or something...

Simon G. · Posted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 2:41 am Post subject:

When you say "German type of lettering", do you mean gothic letters?

Victor Bobr · Posted: Fri 01 Apr, 2011 3:06 pm Post subject:

Danielle Skjelver · Posted: Sat 02 Apr, 2011 4:12 am Post subject:

Victor,

Pictures would be most helpful. I can probably help. Those words could be Germanic, but it is possible that the 'h' only looks like an 'h' but is perhaps something else. It could be Latin. The Dora could be Dona as in a gift.

Pictures really are crucial because the same kinds of writing - Gothic/Miniscule - were used for different languages.

Danielle

Victor Bobr · Posted: Sun 03 Apr, 2011 11:22 am Post subject:

My dad made a copy of the inscription, as best as he could. I managed to get photos over Skype. Sorry for the image quality. 1st picture contains 1st and 2nd word of the blade inscription, and the 2nd picture has the last word of the inscription. I will try and get picture of the sword over the next few days. Thanks for every ones help so far.

Danielle Skjelver · Posted: Sun 03 Apr, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject:

Very helpful, Victor!

I am pretty sure this is Latin. I think that first word is fors as in 'fortune' or 'luck'.

I am not sure what that symbol in front of hat is. It could be an abbreviation symbol, which seems unlikely for a sword. It could be an s as you thought, or it could be an i or a j.

The bottom word looks like duoentest. I don't know what this would mean other than that 'double' is probably part of the word. I have tried breaking it into duo en test and duo entest. I'm not sure. It is probably something obvious.

The font does not look old enough for Old French. How old did you say this sword is?

Danielle

Stephane Rabier · Posted: Sun 03 Apr, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject:

Hi,
could it be Latin?
Fors (gate)
..at
Audent (they dare, they're eager for battle)
or
Augent (they increase)
est
Well, it makes no sense like that but I've not learnt much Latin during my school years Blush

P.S.
I've just seen Danielle's message, could it be something with the meaning of "Fortes fortuna juvat " or " audentes fortuna iuvat" : fortune favors the bold

Stephane Rabier · Posted: Sun 03 Apr, 2011 1:11 pm Post subject:

I've got it:
fors juvat audentes: fortune favors the brave (Claudian) !

Kurt Scholz · Posted: Sun 03 Apr, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject:

Victor Bobr · Posted: Sun 03 Apr, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject:

Stephane Rabier · Posted: Mon 04 Apr, 2011 12:45 am Post subject:

Victor Bobr · Posted: Mon 04 Apr, 2011 2:08 pm Post subject:

Here's some pics of the sword.

Kurt Scholz · Posted: Tue 05 Apr, 2011 3:43 am Post subject:

Your images don't show the pommel. Can you add this?
Is it possible to have a photography where you can see the inscription on the sword? Part of the deciphering was done under the assumption that the inscription has been damaged and thus letters are corrupted. It probably helps to use sunlight and no flash while taking the photography.

Victor Bobr · Posted: Tue 05 Apr, 2011 4:23 am Post subject:

Stephane Rabier · Posted: Fri 22 Apr, 2011 12:14 am Post subject:

Hi,
any news from your dad's camera Victor?

Markus A · Posted: Fri 22 Apr, 2011 2:03 am Post subject:

iam very sure that this thing is an DUD
first the inscibtion does not suit from the style the looks of this sword.from the looks its about 1200 but the inscribtions where not made that style at this date.surely an fake or victorian copy
this is an victorian copy made look older with acid or other suff the grey look is typic.das the advantage no patination is on it....very typic for an dud.
iam very sure about this even the pics are not good.
anyway what others say after 25 years in the thing i say not good

Victor Bobr · Posted: Fri 22 Apr, 2011 12:55 pm Post subject:

Yes sorry just been busy. Below are some pictures that my dad took, close up of the sword.

Markus A · Posted: Fri 22 Apr, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject:

DUD as i say.the lettering has the same look like the one on an SS OR SA DAGGER.never is this the work of the 12.century.
this is as clear as rain.its this romatic lettering which is in the historism oftenm used.
its an fake or an historism item but never this sword is original
no one would spoil an original sword with this lettering.
inscribtions on swords of 1200 look totally different.this is etched.at this early date the leters where cut,and when one cuts this capitals they are never so wide.this can only made with etching.and this was not done around 1200.