[Emil Andersson]

Hello,

I would be interested in knowing how arming points worked between a gambeson or pourpoint and plate defences, and where they were placed on the arming clothes. I am currently most interested in the relationship between arming points at the shoulder and how they tied down a pair of spaulders. My own gambeson is currently without any arming points - what will I need to add to secure my shoulder armour? Do the plate pieces need anything done to them as well in order to support arming points?

Thank you for your time,
Emil Andersson

[William Frisbee]

Arming points will make your armour fit properly if the armour is made for you. It spreads the weight out, it balances the armour.

You will need to punch some holes and then re-inforce the holes/eyes in your armour.


I have holes that have been sewn to support them, and backed with leather to avoid over-stressing the points. I've then run thru the holes with the point kits I got from Historic Enterprises.

My arms are supported at the rebrace by points on my arms and elbows, my shoulders have a leather tab which is pointed to the upper shoulders of my pourpoint/gambeson.

Now that I have my more authentic haubergeon, I have no problems with wearing and fighting/teaching in my kit all day.

My legs are still not supported in a way I would like. I'm going to try a C-belt next, but maybe move to a suspension system similar to what Historic enterprises offers for the 15th century kit for legs suspension...

[Thom R.]

On some pieces of my armour I prefer holes in the steel itself (my spaulders, couters) and for others (rerebrace, cuisse poleyns) I prefer a leather tab with eyelets riveted to the steel to point to. pointing directly to holes in the steel seems to me to be a "stiffer" system verses a leather tab which allows for a bit more twisting and movement. i just make my own leather patches and sew them onto my arming garments where I need them. ailettes on the ends do help when threading the cord at times. tr

[Ian S LaSpina]

[William Frisbee]

[Aleksei Sosnovski]

Basically you need points to attach every piece of armor on your limbs that is not attached to anything else. On my armor that would be:
- points for attaching pauldrons
- points to attaching rerebraces
- points for attaching leg armor

You probably don't need points for rerebraces if these are attached to pauldrons. And on the contrary, you may need extra points to attach couters and vambraces if these are not attached to rerebraces. The idea is to have every pat of your armor hang from shoulders or waist so that it does not slip down and restrict your movement. Thus attaching arm harness to sleeve of your gambeson transfers its weight to the shoulder. The only exception are greaves that don't necessarily need to be attached to anything though there are armors where greaves are attached to upper leg defence either permanently or so that they can be detached.

You can also use points to keep armor parts from moving around even if these parts are already attached to something else. For example you can have an arm harness with integrated shoulder defense that is attached to your gambeson only at the shoulder but you can also add another set of points at the couter if you wish.

I usually attach points by making round or rectangular piece of leather with 2 holes, sewing this piece to the garment and then passing the points through the holes. With such construction it is difficult to accidentally pull out the points from the garment. Another plus is that you can always take the leather piece off and attach to another place. Exact places where you attach the points to depend on your armor.

For attaching leg armor I strongly recommend pourpoint (is it a correct word? A close-fittng vest-like garment). When done properly it very comfortable and distributes weight of the armor to your hips rather than shoulders. I used belts long ago but after I made this garment I understood the meaning of word "comfort".

[Sam Gordon Campbell]

Also, as I side note I'd like to add that when you are not wearing your plate (or separate haubergeon) arming points when well made and tied in nice knots look pretty sweet, and couple that with some voiders or what have you, and you have an awesome looking arming garment.
Also, I have points for my (I don't use them all all the time, but they're still there to look good): pauldron's/spaulders, rerebrace/upper-canon's, couter's, vambrace/lower-canons, cuisse, poleyns, greaves/synchbalds, and sabatons

Note: I second the motion for getting a pourpoint.

[Emil Andersson]

I thank you for your replies, myArmoury is never a let-down when it comes to practical information.

William, I noticed this..

[Aleksei Sosnovski]

Here you go. I have asymmetrical points because I don't wear full arm harness on my left hand when using a shield. In that case I only wear pauldron and couter.

P.S. On the pictures you posted there are ordinary buckles. Which means that these pauldrons are designed to be attached to a gorget which would have leather straps. A leather tab on armor would simply be a rectangular piece of leather with 2 holes in it.

[William Frisbee]

i know they are hard to see, but at the top of my arms you can see the leather tab I use to point my arms to my gambson/joupon.

[Vladimir R.]

I have seen this topic as the most appropriate to ask my question and not be considered as off-topic. I am having trouble finding a way to suspend leg harness to arming clothes; does anyone know what the historic method was? Is it period correct to use pourpoint vest as an under aketon garment for leg harness suspension or should i use some kind of belt? If possible post some pictures please

V.

[F Hynd]

Having gone through the same thing relatively recently for what I have read / experienced a well fitted pourpoint is historical and by far the most comfortable way of suspending a leg harness. as it should spread the load between the waist and shoulders.

Ill reference this page [url]http://www.revivalclothing.com/article-armingsequence.aspx [/url] but I cant remember any other good sources at this time.

[Ian S LaSpina]

[Lafayette C Curtis]

Later doublets are also frequently shown not meeting or barely meeting edge-to-edge on the waist; further up the chest they're frequently seen open far enough to obviously show the lacing. Going to shirtleeves in these doublets is done by slipping the sleeves and upper body off while keeping the part from the waist down closely laced to keep the hose up, so I presume that the basic idea is still similar: the weight of garments and armour pointed to the lower half of a later arming doublet should mostly be borne by the lower body.

[Christopher Denby]

Lots of good info for those new to harness here. I've received my first plate harness pieces and and I'm the process of modifying my undergarments to suit so I do have a question myself:

My cuisses have buckles on the top instead of a leather tab with holes for points. Has anyone had any experience with sewing leather straps to a pourpoint or should I modify the cuisses to take points? Would straps on a pourpoint be historically correct/passable?

I had a play and found that tying the buckle to points at the front wasn't exactly a comfortable place to bear the weight. Where should the points for cuisses ideally be located? I'm thinking at the side on my hips...

I should add, they're 15th C and come quite high so they don't tie to the bottom of my pourpoint or arming cotte.

[Christopher Denby]

I'm personally thinking of adding points as seen on Ian's cuisses but moving them out further to the hip joint. I'd assume this would prevent the cuisses 'dropping' when I bend forward which I find happens to me.

[Mark T]

Hi Christopher,

Sorry to be late to this thread. Wouldn't your armourer be the best person to ask about these questions? My brief explorations in plate suggest there are some general principles, but that also armourers have different ideas about attachment, which are built into the pieces themselves.