14th century complex hilts? -- myArmoury.com

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 4:01 am Post subject: 14th century complex hilts?

If you look in this thread http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=186825 you can see a sword posted by Hadrian Coffin, said to be from 14th century, England. I have also seen it in an Osprey title, but, I cant seem to find out any more about it. What I would most like to know is, are we sure it's 14th century, and if so how? Also are there more examples of this type, or is it a unique specimen? Thanks in advance for any help.

Luka Borscak · Posted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 8:10 am Post subject:

I have no idea about that particular specimen but all others of this type I have seen are second half of the 15th century...

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Mon 21 Mar, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject:

Thanks Luka, yes it seems more like, second half of the 15th century, to me aswell. I have seen 1 other example very similar to this one, except without the side guard, and I think this was 15th century aswell, but it's this side guard that I'm most interested in.

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Sun 27 Mar, 2011 5:12 am Post subject:

Apart from this example, has anyone here ever seen another 15th century sword with a side guard?

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Mon 25 Apr, 2011 7:06 am Post subject:

Scott Woodruff · Posted: Wed 27 Apr, 2011 9:06 am Post subject:

Yes indeed, that is a turn of the 15th to 16th century sword of the so-called Wakefield type. I am most excited to see another example, I have been quite interested in this type and it has been diffcult to find pictures or info about them. These are basically just enlarged versions of the side-lug-pommel daggers which Oakeshott says were quite common in France and England around 1470 to 1510. Some examples, like the one shown, have a pommel shaped like a boars head, basically the same shape as the side-lugged but with a little file-work to vaguely indicate the features. Out of time now, I'll try to dig up my research notes and give some info about other examples when I can. I can tell you that my favorite example of the type has a side-lug, which along with quillons, end in little cloven hooves. I think that is a cool little decorative detail, makes me think of these as proto-hangers/hunting swords.

Stephen Curtin · Posted: Wed 27 Apr, 2011 9:56 am Post subject:

Hi Scot, thanks for posting, looking forward to seeing some of your research.

Roger Hooper · Posted: Wed 27 Apr, 2011 10:18 am Post subject:

There are a couple of photos of that sword in Mazansky's, British Basket-Hilted Swords, on page 45, dated to the late 15th century. (Royal Armouries IX.2639) There are a few pictures there of other examples of this "Wakefield " type, all dated as no earlier than the 15th century. Only one of them (from the late 16th century) has a side knuckle guard.

If you contact the Royal Armouries, they can give you more information on that sword, including more photographs.