Yet Another Type XVIII Project! -- myArmoury.com

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: Yet Another Type XVIII Project!

This Type XVIII bastard sword project is picking up speed now so I'll start a thread to help push me to the finish line. Big Grin

Blade is Windlass Erbach Sword. Pommel is Windlass Towton. Guard is courtesy of an Anonymous Benefactor. Took quite a while to assemble everything I needed for this one, but it's working out quite well. What you see here is the roughed-out grip marked for further refinement (I've finished that process since taking this photo). The guard is pretty much the shape it's meant to be but still very roughly finished. The pommel still needs to lose just under 25" from the base. There's a bit of distortion in this cell phone photo but you get the idea.

Everything is close enough to its finished state that I can get a reasonable estimate of balance--just under 3". I'd be happy if it had slightly more blade presence but the Windlass blades are pretty thin. That's not a terrible thing for a broad, late Type XVIII and it does feel good in the hand. It's not a huge sword--only about 44" overall.

Hilt furniture will be blued. I'll make an appropriate scabbard immediately after finishing the sword.

This project is inspired by two swords depicted by Hans Memling, ca. 1480. The first is in the androgynous paw of the Archangel Michael. I won't bore you with the different measures I've taken from this image in an attempt to develop a biometric guide to the sword's proportions. Suffice it to say that what looks perfectly natural on canvas can leave you scratching your head when you try to apply it in three dimensions. I have tried to get as close as possible to the Memling sword in terms of proportions, although I accept some of the discrepancies you see here--pommel shape, curvature of guard, blade type (Memling's appears to have a fuller and is more acutely pointed). I think the Memling sword would weigh significantly more, too (I estimate mine to be a bit over 2lbs.) but possibly with similar balance. My aim during this project has been to make historically / culturally / technically appropriate choices inspired by the painting--not to try and copy the weapon exactly.

The all-black color of the Memling sword bugs me. As far as I can tell, decorative bluing of entire blades was still decades away and in any case this doesn't look decorative. Tarnished silver pigment is one possible explanation. In that case, the whole sword might originally have been bright. Another Memling sword helped me decide that bluing of the hilt is a plausible middle way. This one, from Memling's Altarpiece of St. John shows a similar long-gripped sword with relatively short blade. The blade in this case is bright while the hilt is blued. There's plenty of information to savor there, but for me the most important details are what appear to be silver or steel turk's head knots at the ends of the grips. They're silver-colored. The hilt is black. I therefore conclude that Memling did mean to depict black hilt furniture in this case, at least. This doesn't resolve the question about the color of the sword in the first example.

Perry L. Goss · Posted: Fri 18 Feb, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject: darker blades etc

Sean:

Noticed the post. Now not for sure on the black, and this may be a sidebar... but if I recall long, long time ago I read something about armour and blades that the difference in color from then to now might have been due to methodology used in grinding/buffing.

That now days...even the best use power tools. RPMs.

In that day, outside of water wheels and the like - there were no high speed buffers.

I myself have played with water wheel and water stone grinding and it imparts an entirely different sheen to the metal. Smooth as silk, but much more subdued.

Again, may be just a sidebar - but found the post most interesting.

Thank you

Andreas Auer · Posted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 1:15 am Post subject:

interesting...i started almost the same project....but with a Albion XVIII bare blade...
i wish you all the best..

Andreas

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 7:48 am Post subject:

Francisco Rodriguez · Posted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: Blue or Red Hilt??

Hey I see your project is on the right way man. And the sword looks real good.
But what you think about a rd Hilt instead of a blue one??. Ussually bue hilts are not as elegant in my opinion as red ones. What do you think??

Sean Flynt · Posted: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Blue or Red Hilt??

Andreas Auer · Posted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 12:07 am Post subject:

hi Sean!

im just in the planing stage...:-)

just for fixing the COG (thin black line)...and judging the overall appearance...

...and i also like red or oxblood grips...:-)

greetings Andreas

Eric G. · Posted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 7:59 am Post subject:

Sean,

You are an interesting guy to follow. First you do the piece on the windlass german mace (which got me following in your footsteps with my Italian Windlass Mace) and now you do this type XVIII sword. This one looks almost exactly like what I wanted to do, except i was planning on using a tinker XVIIIA blade. I had started this thread on how to come by the hilt and pommel - http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=22390

As you will see, I was looking for the exact same pommel type that you used. Nice. Most of my swords already have a downcurved cross guard, so I was thinking about making mine more cruciform in style, like the Albion Constable. http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/ne...photos.htm

Thanks for your contributions to this forum.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 1:13 pm Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject:

And here's where I am as of this morning (loose assembly for the photos)--the grip core is done and I have almost the final polish on the steel. I'll add a bit more polish to the hilt furniture before bluing, but I'll finish the grip first to reduce the risk of marring the cross and pommel. I'll get a shot of the black grip and bright furniture for reference. It's relatively easy to remove blue if I don't like it, but there's no good way to visualize the blue without actually doing it. It can change the character of the piece dramatically--not always for the best.

This will be flush-peened (and re-blued around the peen, of course). One helpful thing I've learned in this project is that a sharp wood chisel makes short work of creating a counter-sink in a mild steel pommel (yes, I abuse my cheap tools). I'd been grinding the countersinks, but that's hard to control.

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject:

By the way, my fellow sword butchers will know the pain of a round tang and round pommel hole. Strong epoxy can solve the problems that presents but the pommel can still go adrift during peening, and that's annoying. I'm going to try to prevent that in this project by drilling a small hole in foot of the pommel, parallel to the main hole. I'll drive a nail into that small hole, leaving about .25" protruding. That pin will match to a hole in the top of the grip. That will keep things in alignment during peening and until the epoxy cures. It's not an ideal solution but it should work and it will be invisible.

EDIT: I didn't need to do this after all. Got a good, tight fit between pommel and tang and just secured everything with JB Weld.

Julien M · Posted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 1:44 pm Post subject:

Hey Sean,

As usual, great job!

I really like that that pommel, which led me to buy the towton sword 5 years ago, my first purchase actually.

How have you extended the tang? Welded an extension or simply lowered the blade shoulders, taking the extra lenght from the blade?

Also how have you dealt with the blade insertion in the guard? that's always a tricky part, especially when using components from another sword.

Are you going to coutersink the pommel, cold/hot peen and then flush the peen? (edit: actually you mentionned that above...I use a carbide cutter/dremel to countersink the hole at the top of the pommel...takes about 5 minutes to do the job).

I'll say its high time to use some of your top grain veg tanned leather for the grip of this one, it deserves the royal treatment Happy

Cheers,

J

Andreas Auer · Posted: Thu 24 Feb, 2011 11:37 pm Post subject:

ahh Sean...i love your pommwl....ähhh....sorry...your swordpommel...:-) im looking forward to see this baby finished....

Andreas

Sean Flynt · Posted: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 7:40 am Post subject:

Sean Flynt · Posted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 7:29 am Post subject:

Blued and loosely assembled for a phone snapshot. Hoping to peen Thursday night. Big Grin

Haven't fully committed to the bluing. Might prefer the bright, and then it could share a scabbard with my earlier Erbach project. What do y'all think? I know it's impossible to get a sense of the scale here, but just imagine three hands on that grip and pommel.

Luka Borscak · Posted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 12:12 pm Post subject:

Looks great. I would definitely leave it blued.

Brian K. · Industry Professional

You are truly a gifted artisan, with a keen ability to achieve a pre-planned goal. As always, you do not disappoint. It look's fantastic!

Andreas Auer · Posted: Wed 02 Mar, 2011 11:16 pm Post subject:

Blue...definitely... Looking good...keep em peening...:-)

Andreas

Sean Flynt · Posted: Thu 03 Mar, 2011 7:18 am Post subject: